MLS is Back Tournament [Rs]

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
    During the period from July 1-2, 855 players, coaches, referees, club staff, league staff and other individuals were tested for COVID-19. Of that group, six individuals tested positive, four of whom were players.
    855 people tested at the host hotel in Florida
    6 new positives, 4 of which were players
    12 total positive tests, 10 of which are players
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/06/28/major-league-soccer-announces-covid-19-testing-update
     
  2. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Point of contact for Atuesta on Chará. Not a fan of this challenge. 20200723_235136~2.jpg
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my admonition that it shouldn't be discussed here. So I'll just point out that nowhere in the link you provided are names of individuals used.
     
  4. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is this something you've seen looked at by VAR? I know last year there were several of these cases where, on replay, the hold clearly was before the ball was in play. A PK was awarded and allowed. I feel like it should be something that is a focus.
     
  5. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    VAR can definitely recommend a review if they have evidence that all the foul contact occurs prior to the ball being in play. The issue with holding is that unlike any other foul, it's continuous so even if it starts before the kick, as long as the holding is still happening when the ball is put into play, a foul is appropriate by Law.

    That doesn't mean PRO necessarily wants a penalty here. They might support the foul that was called, but they might also say that they want the referee to hold up and manage the restart when there's holding like this prior to the ball being in play. But I don't think they'll have any issue with the VAR on this call (or on the potential handling just before, but that's a different debate).
     
  6. bothways

    bothways Member

    Jun 27, 2009
    no soccer until this evening to occupy my mind,so depending what teams win, etc, I am playing the prediction game.any takers :)
    sibiga for the final
    maruffo and elfath for semis
    Rivas, touchan, Villarreal and Chapman for quarter finals
     
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  7. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Uh, yeah, but it was a disaster and will not be used this year....
     
  8. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I agree that is the logical way it *should* be looked at. I personally have not seen VAR help overturn a PK on the field when it is clear on replay the foul started and ended prior to the kick (usually the player is on the ground before the kick.) I was wondering if others have actually seen VAR get involved here.
     
  9. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    So... I missed some entertainment at the end of the New England game last night it would appear...

    Did anyone actually see video of the incident that led to the red card for Bruce Arena for the abusive language towards the referees post-match, or was it not even shown on screen?
     
  10. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't know it was being dropped. One big difference in NFL is the number of officials with eyes on the play during a game. I would think they have an advantage over soccer officials in this regard.
     
  11. Pelican86

    Pelican86 Member

    United States
    Jun 13, 2019
    They just showed highlights during halftime of TFC-NYC. They blurred his mouth, but (assuming it was edited correctly) at least one f-bomb and a****** prior to the red card, and some more cursing after that.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did Altidore really not get a yellow card for that (59') or was it shown off-screen?

    I know it would never happen, but I can make the argument for red.
     
  13. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No card that I have seen. Very surprised there was no caution. Chilowicz seemed fine punishing reckless challenges early in the first half. No reason why he'd let Altidore off the hook for just having entered the match, not that he should anyway. Really needed a card IMO.

    What did you think about that Sands challenge in minute 66? Looked ugly to me.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yellow. It had the potential to have a much worse result, but given the total picture of tackle and result, yellow is expected at the professional level and certainly in this league.

    But it was the end(?) of a very hectic and dangerous seven minutes in the aftermath of the Altidore challenge. It was a good opportunity to try to pull everything back under control for Chilowicz.
     
  15. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Someone correct if I'm wrong, but we've gone through the entire tournament so far without a red card for serious foul play?
     
  16. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The last red card in MLS for SFP was shown by Alan Kelly to Everton Luiz in last year's playoffs.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How many SFP reds do we think were missed, though? I can think of one clear one (discussed previously) and maybe one earlier from the first couple days. Maybe there was a third I'm not remembering right now? I know I haven't seen every match, but figure there would be discussion here if anything else was clear.
     
  18. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's the other side of the coin. I don't remember anything popping up as a VAR miss before the Felipe tackle, including in the two normal weeks that were played. That does not preclude there having been challenges where PRO would prefer red but also didn't consider the yellow clearly wrong.

    I know I pointed out the point of contact on that Atuesta challenge vs Chará, and it's bad, but I don't have it in motion, and we can't judge that by screenshot alone.
     
  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Rapids had two elbows to the face, one by them (Benezet) against SKC, one against them against Minnesota. Are those the ones that PRO is ok with a yellow on, though they'd prefer red?
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They'd be violent conduct compared to SFP, so we are splitting that hair based on @RedStar91 's question.

    I don't believe PRO has said anything either way about the either incident. Not sure if they will.
     
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  21. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Those are all potential violent conduct incidents. Not quite the same considerations, although I know certain MLS VIPs were happy with yellow for the first one, and I suspect PRO was happy with yellow for the second one

    What I'm referring to is very rare if it's even happened at all. Would take a real borderline tackle where PRO would recommend a red due to the time/temperature of the game but also have enough wiggle room that yellow isn't *technically* wrong in a vacuum.

    But really the most common time you see a sort of "wrong but not wrong enough for VAR" call is with offside.

    Take Orlando's disallowed goal the other day. PRO will likely say, whether he's on by an inch or off by an inch, it was too close to be perceptible and they would prefer the flag stay down. It is not, however, a clear error for the VAR to fix because you just can't tell for sure which side of the line it lies on from looking at the video unaided.
     
  22. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah, good point. My bad.
     
  23. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fischer with a red card for SFP. Clearly we spoke it into existence.
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In a knockout match. @RedStar91 is going to have convulsions.
     
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  25. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's RSL, though. There is precedent.
     
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