MLS Instituting Rules re: Mass Confrontation

Discussion in 'Referee' started by GlennAA11, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. ChomskyReferee

    Jan 24, 2013
    The significant quote I took from this.

    "One such complaint: “So if an opponent hits one of our players, we can’t do anything about it?”"

    Tells me Agoos believes soccer to be like hockey.
  2. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    I like the part where they try to pull the jerseys over each other's heads.
  3. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    If the referee handed out cautions to everyone confronting him, I the players would get the idea pretty quickly not to do it. But everyone would complain, so MLS, being the pussies that they are, would just throw the referee under the bus and let it continue to happen every week.
  4. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nice idea, but that won't work. They are right though about mass confrontations being higher than most other leagues. i remember a stretch during the past season where it seemed like every game had to have ARs step on the field.
  5. ChomskyReferee

    Jan 24, 2013
    Pretty much this, Landon Donovan answered the question "Why do you guys act this way?"

    "Because you Let Us."

    Everyone in that meeting took note of it, I haven't seen many MLS referees DO anything about it though.
    Scrabbleship repped this.
  6. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    Which indicates that there are other factors involved....

    As for the rule, it sounds like it is constructed for post-game reviews. Hope it works.
  7. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    This (Landon's Q & A) referred to dissent more than other matters, and compared their behavior in International matches to that in MLS games. It is noteworthy that Landon was essentially
    a model player when he was on loan at Everton and did not bitch at the referees as he did
    in MLS matches. It is not unreasonable to ask why this is so, but Landon answered it himself!
    It is the culture of league. But a lot of EPL players bitch at the refs though, so it is just as bad over there. It is obvious to anyone who watches those games on TV what they are saying, without having
    any lip-reading skills. Yelling "f#@k off" is easy to observe.

  8. ChomskyReferee

    Jan 24, 2013
    Well we're essentially talking about mass dissent aren't we? Coming together in a mass to protest the referees decision, or influence him. Also I watch a lot of EPL and La Liga games, EPL is better than La Liga and the MLS with the problem of mass confrontation. More specifically though players in the EPL accept certain decisions much more easily. Watching MLS games, it's quite striking how much players are arguing and yelling and screaming about stuff that doesn't matter, and they don't let it go. In EPL matches just generally they seem to understand what a foul is and what a card is for. Especially last years MLS matches as another poster pointed out there was a lot of coming together and ARs having to step in.

    So no I do not think it's just as bad over there, if anything they are much smarter about the game over there then here.
  9. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Yeah, in general I agree with you here, I was referring to some very obvious instances, not the
    overall approach. Watch Holt of Norwich or Carroll of West Ham for examples. Rooney used to be
    in this group, but he has calmed down a lot. However, notice his demeanor in ECL and pre-WC matches. FIFA refs in those single matches don't put up with it. They only have to please
    one man named Collina! Regular season league matches and their refs are different.

  10. Mi3ke

    Mi3ke Member

    Oct 18, 2011
    New Mexico
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And then there is this comment below the WP story:

    "I could be wrong, but isn't "deliberate encroachment" to slow down the restarts legal? the team who won the ball has to ask for 10 yards, at which point the ref must mark it off and order a restart on the whistle."

    Cheers, Mi3ke
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :eek: ???
  12. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Well, a person who used to be responsible for the MLS referees had a
    strong background in hockey, and was sometimes referred to as the "hockeyman"
    by certain highly experienced members of the referee community.

  13. ChomskyReferee

    Jan 24, 2013
    What was the one last year with the Sunderland player getting red carded after the game by Mike Dean. I doubt you would see that over here handled in the same way, but that was an excellent derby and well reffed. When EPL refs like Dean, Webb, and sometimes Dowd get mad they don't put up with any crap. I'd like to see the same from our MLS referees, sometimes Toledo gets that way with say Freddie Ljungberg.
  14. ChomskyReferee

    Jan 24, 2013
    I'm not a hockey fan. The skating and the skill is all very nice, the foul play and the fights aren't. In the grand scheme of sports it seems that Hockey and Soccer chose two different pathways. Hockey lets teams deal with misconducts and they fight it out, with designated players to do the fighting, it's part of the culture. Soccer gave more power to the referees to reign in ungentlemanly conduct.

    Maybe that's something to do with Soccer coming from an Empire and Hockey being predominantly played by that Empires colony. I don't know know what the answer is but it's fun to think about.
  15. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    To be fair, Agoos was quoting the players here not giving his opinion.

    I seem to recall the EPL used to have a huge problem with this. And then a few years ago they started their "respect" campaign which was meant to get rid of the mass confrontation of the referees. The big clubs were the biggest perpetrators. Since then things seem to have gotten better over there but it was not ever so.
  16. ChomskyReferee

    Jan 24, 2013
    You're right. I got confused with the bunch of Agoos quotes and completely misattributed the quote which was anonymous. My bad.

    Yes and UEFA had a problem with this in Clasicos which Collina spoke out about. It's something that people are noticing takes away from the game so they're clamping down on it. The MLS should obviously start their own respect campaign.
  17. iron81

    iron81 Member+

    Jan 6, 2011
    Chicago Fire
    I got the impression they are more worried about scrums between the players than mass dissent. Frankly so am I, the former takes more away from my MLS viewing experience than the latter.
  18. rkucenski

    rkucenski Member

    Sep 23, 2011
    Flower Mound TX
    FC Dallas
    A current MLS AR told us in a meeting over the weekend that the league was going to try and clamp down on the mass confrontation around the referee. It appeared that was going to be one of the primary things they were focusing on this year, and have the support of the league. Time will tell if (a) referees start to punish for it, and (b) the league doesn't cut them off at the knees
  19. CKRef22

    CKRef22 Member

    Oct 10, 2011
    Washington state
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    So now that poster boy Beckham is gone, they decide to implement these rules...hilarious. He was the worst at just following the referee around screaming at him, and every referee was too afraid to do something about it
  20. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member

    Jun 3, 2001
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    To be honest with you, I don't believe that "mass confrontations" are worse than in other leagues as Agoos is claiming. Needs to be addressed? Sure, but I don't think it's worse than most.

    Personally, I think item #3 is a huge MLS problem:

    3. A coach or staff member approaching match officials from the time they arrive at the stadium until they depart is subject to fine and suspension.

    There have been numerous cases where coaches/players are berating the refs at halftime or after a game at midfield while the whole crew just stands there and takes the abuse. Does this also fall under the constant berating of 4th officials in every match? If so, I'm looking to see how they handle this. The complaining to 4th officials (ex. Peter Vermes) for an entire match last year was out of control.
    blacksun repped this.
  21. ChomskyReferee

    Jan 24, 2013
    If you watch enough MLS you can see that it's pretty bad. It's not as bad as some La Liga games, or Italian games, but it's worse than the EPL.
  22. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I'm for Rugby rules of engagement. Have you watched rugby? Not a word to the officials. They walk away. There are no mass confrontations, no raising of their hands to beg for a call, no complaining. It's great.

    NBA likewise now. Complain and you get a T.
    Bubba Atlanta repped this.
  23. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    What NBA are you watching? Likes of Kobe, KG, LeBron, etc. are throwing f-bombs left and right and whining about calls all game. They get T'd up every now and then, but it's meaningless because they never get the second during the game.
  24. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    I know what you're saying and it definitely does exist, but there's a difference between talking to an official (which I have no problem with and sometimes encourage), turning to an official (awaiting a call) or whining and simply arguing. Whining gets a warning before it's a Technical unless you're CrybabyLeBron James* and that's all you do. Abusive language or threatening motions towards an official are likely to get a technical every time.

    *Bullets fan

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