Yes, but he didn’t score in the Gold Cup final. Unlike our Euro studs who, er, didn’t score in the Gold Cup final.
I hope you hold all our attacking players to these standards and recognize that a Wales B and Panama B side are such teams you speak of.
I keep hearing that was a Panama B team, who were they missing? I don't think Panama is that good, so your point still stands in general. But that was as good a Panama team then the all-MLS Gold Cup squad (Miazga the only non-MLS starter) beat 1-0 at home. Mostly the same players that I can see. It was a Wales B team. It was probably better than any team we faced in the Gold Cup outside Mexico and better than any January team or the Jamaica team that ran over the Trapp/Yueill/Roldan midfield in June.
I have no idea what Panama's A or B team is. But here are the players who started the most games for Panama in the 2019 Gold Cup: GK: Mejia RB: Murillo CB: Cummings CB: R. Torres LB: Davis MF: Barcenas MF: Escobar MF: Cooper MF: Quintero FW: G. Torres FW: Fajardo/Arroyo (each started half the games) Here was the Panama side that lined up against us last month: GK: Mosquera RB: Murillo CB: Escobar CB: Bethancourt LB: Yearwood MF: Guerrero MF: Carrasquilla MF: Cooper MF: Aguillar FW: Tejada FW: Fajardo Gabriel Torres also subbed in late. Cummings and Barcenas were on the bench. Maybe their preferred XI changed a lot since then, but it does look like largely a different team to me.
Wow, nice job. In the Gold Cup game against the USA they sat Barcenas, Murillo and Quintero. So, that was a rotated squad too as it was the third group game with nothing on the line, iirc. The team in Austria for Panama was probably superior to the team we faced in the Gold Cup. I'm having a hard time finding in any Panama roster a player that is really at a top level that wasn't in the game. Maybe the GK was a step down and he was iffy on one goal, but Murillo might be their top player and he started in Austria and was a sub in the Gold Cup. Plus, you don't get 15 shots because of the GK. 6-2 in Austria versus 1-0 at home. We had 7 shots at home in the Gold Cup, 2 on target. We had 15 in Austria and 8 on target. So, I think for this thread, the all-Euro squad (minus Pulisic and Sargent), completely and utterly outperformed the MLS squad from the Gold Cup against a better Panama starting linuep and in Austria in an empty stadium, not Kansas City with fans in the stands.
Thank you. I think they missed the GK. A guy playing in Segunda B, a decent Austrian team, another in Ecuador, another in Panama. These might be starters for them, or not, but they are hardly difference makers. We didn't even call in our guy from a decent Austrian team. Again, I doubt that is a much different talent level then the Panama team that held us 1-0, with only a few shots in the USA during the Gold Cup.
The El Salvador squad coming to the USA to play next Thursday is worse/better than that Panama squad we faced in Austria?
Below those 6 there's nothing but they still manage to give the US a hard time in the Gold Cup and WCQ.
Yet another former MLS player explains the difference between MLS and his new league in Europe. This isn't a top five league but one that the league comparison army would claim MLS is much "better" than. Apparently buying foreign players to make the league "better" still doesn't change the way the game is played. It remains clear to me that the environment isn't ideal for players development, players should get out as soon as they can, and many of those from the league will continue to struggle with the spead of international play. The most striking difference Aaronson has noticed between the Austrian Bundesliga and MLS so far is the increased speed of play and physicality, with the midfielder now being met with more robust challenges and less time to make in-game decisions. “I can’t really put my finger on what the difference is but for me, when I came over here, I noticed the speed of play is a lot faster than MLS,” Aaronson said. “People are closing you down quicker, they’re more physical and they get into challenges. I think that’s what the biggest difference is. “In MLS you have a little more time, teams set up behind the ball. Especially with the Union last year, a lot of teams liked to sit back against us. I’d say that’s the biggest difference.”
That is interesting as Berhalter told EPB that Austria is slower than MLS. Maybe since Berhalter called EPB into this last camp, he has actually reassessed the league. There has to be something between the roster rules in MLS and how domestic players are used to maximize those roster rules. We saw in Guadalajara that the MLS U23 team had very few creative attacking players to choose from and a plethora of bang average holding mids and defenders. Players also were not used to being the driving force of the offense or wanting the ball in pressure situations. The internal roster competition in MLS is obviously a problem. High priced players usually start with no competition. If they are terrible, they could sit, but then it is not a competition for that spot, just whoever is on the roster fills in. I do think the DP rule leads to an over reliance on a 10, like most of the world game has moved on from. All through USA development, there is not the concentration of great players in any area. The country is just very large and internal competition at the youth club level is not purely a meritocracy. Elite talents play up in ages to help them develop. So, it makes sense that MLS is a good spot, it seems, up to adult age. In other words, Adams and Aaronson can "play up" with adults, but have to move on around 19/20 to take the next step. That players that are not wanted and are in the league at 22-24 are the discards.
I hear the opposite when Euro players come to MLS. Almost like everyone tries to place nice with their new team and league. I also wonder how much temperature affects play as every time read about people watching Johnny in the Brazilian league they mention that it seems slow. Doesn't seem to make Euro teams not pursue players from that league though for some reason.
Whether or not Aaronson considers his new home to be superior to his old, that statement is not at all a judgement on superiority. He says they are different. He doesn't take the next step and say it is better. (Perhaps he believes it is far superior, but he didn't say it there)
The structure of the two leagues really clouds perception when talking Austria versus MLS as well. It's very difficult to compare the two. Remember, Austria is only 12 teams. MLS is now up to 27. MLS is more than twice the size of the Austrian Bundesliga. The 26th best team in Austria right now is some team called SK Vorwärts Steyr in the relegation zone of the 2nd division. The 26th best team in MLS just spent 15 million on a Brazilian youth international. Just as a comparison. Not only that, MLS is a league built on parity. So the talent is spread out, and its spread out pretty evenly. That has an impact in terms of the style of play. Basically every game is a tossup, which is why betting on MLS is a fools errand. It means every game is a bit more cagey. Almost game is an even contest. In Austria the talent is concentrated on just a few teams on the top. Aaronson's viewpoint is clouded by the fact that he's on the powerhouse. I'd love to hear the comments of Brandon Servania about St. Polten versus FC Dallas. He was a backup in Dallas last year, and now a starter in Austria. Andrew Wooten was demonstrably not good enough for MLS, but is scoring goals for Admira Wacker in Austria. I'd love to hear his thoughts.................
He’s also said his experience playing with the Union made for a very easy transition to Salzburg and their style. So yet another former MLS player crediting their experience there as a crucial aspect towards European success.
are we seriously implying austria is more serious than MLS? perhaps after i have stopped laughing i will respond. i think it's lateral or downward, "but in europe" which is its appeal. did you ever consider MLS used to be fast and physical (and sloppy) and grew out of it the last 10 years as the league expanded DPs. raised salary caps, and got more technical? i am a dynamo fan. we used to dominate with a hard cap physical defense and a few skill players. once the league went DP and the ball went to the floor we became outmoded.
This is what I was thinking when reading Aaronson's comments. Remember when everybody was on these boards saying that MLS was too physical? What Aaronson is saying is that Austria is more physical and the challenges are tougher.........................and somehow folks are equating that to "better."
i think austria is worse than us based on boyd and wooten doing nothing when they got here. i think what he might be noticing is he is on a marsch physical team and germans/austrians generally believe in the combination of organization/discipline on defense and then skill going forward. the american pendulum used to be way over on the organization end but then we're now swinging over too far the other end on touch soccer. i would be curious what another "Mastroeni Rapids" type team dedicated to team defense could do in MLS because so many teams are sold out on 433 and spending their money in attack. RBS is basically on another planet from its opposition, 70 GF in 23 games, 4 point standings lead. i am sure they are getting chopped out of pure frustration. that and i don't think you make a field in that part of europe unless you run around, hustle, and tackle. i don't think it means what you think.
it could be as simple as the Union were a mediocre team and now he's on a more successful side within his league. in terms of what the hustle means -- you could press like the US does now, you could hustle around like the germans or austrians, or you could sit back in catenaccio like the italians. i'd argue the most aggressive pressing team of the bunch is probably actually the least sophisticated and effective on defense. "diving in" all the time is hardly well considered, even if it's fashionable. [in fact, the US has historically matched up well with the italians because they will let you fart around with it as long as you show no interest in progressing. try to go by them, you will have a stump left. they will wait for you to make the mistake. the US would match up well, rack up uncontested possession, but often not get the ultimate result.] just like it's a false dichotomy between "organization" and "skill game." german and italian teams skillfully bring the ball forward after playing physical team defense. you can have some of both columns A and B. my bet would be he is on the big dog team now, and you probably don't see a field in austria -- any different than germany -- jogging on defense. particularly for marsch.
Can you provide links and quotes? I have never seen those. I have seen players discuss the difficulty of travel and weather but not about the speed of play. I also didn't mention anything about clubs not being interested in MLS players. I am by no means an expert of SA leagues or specifically Brazil, but have noticed the speed of play is sometimes slower than other parts of the world. I havent thought much about it, but have assumed it had some to do with the high technical level of players making excessive pressing not succesful. Pretty sure the Brazilian league and Americans in MLS are on different ends of the technical scale.
Its amazing how many Brazilians come to MLS and prove they're not superior to MLS players. I'll give you two examples just from FCD. Bressan, who won a Copa Libertadores in 2017 with Gremio. Thiago Santos won a Brazilian title with Palmeiras in both 2016 and 2018. So this isn't ancient history. Neither proved themselves superior to American players.
It further reinforces concerns about Berhalter's ability to assess players. I have always been a fan of the DP (if used wisely), but think the introduction of TAM/GAM has improved the average quality of play at the expense of the american player. You do a good job describing what type of players the league develops as a result of not being considered for top creative/attacking roles and rather simple role players. I think playing up with adults is over rated by many on here. I will agree that NYRB and PHL did a great job with Adams and Aaronson to clear out players and let them develop in their ideal roles (which in turn were bigger responsibilities than most young Americans get).
I was surprised that a team, Salzburg, with superior talent is pressed harder and faster than a team in a parity league. There is more time and space in an MLS game for many reasons. To name a few, parity, less stress on each game, travel, heat and humidity, less pressing. You love to bring up this Brazilian kid; well, you don't pay all that money so he can press like Sargent at Bremen. You also don't ask the other DPs in the league, like Pozuelo, Zlatan, Lodeiro, Altidore, etc. to press. Maybe in the playoffs, this will happen more. But on a random Thursday on the road in KC, these players mostly passively stay in defensive shape, if they care at all, and wait until the cheap American defenders get the ball back. There are places where MLS is ahead of these places and ways it is behind. It is ok to discuss it.