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Discussion in 'Statistics and Analysis' started by swedcrip34, Nov 26, 2004.
here I'll break down what I can, starting with 2004:
1st rnd: all signed, most before draft (MLS ought to consider signing more pre-draft I think)
COL Gregorio, Adolfo R2P05Y04
now at Darlington, England Div 2 (4 really), went overseas and likely not ever in preseason camp
LA (f CLB) Arzate, Guillermo R3P02Y04
NE (f LA) White, Jeremiah R3P03Y04
went to Yugoslavia
COL (f COL t CLB) Taylor, Kevin R3P05Y04
I think he didn't impress preseason in camp with Rapids
MET Occean, Olivier R3P06Y04
left preseason to Odd Greenland (Norway), would've been offered some sort of contract likely
SJ (f KC) Wilson, Mike R3P07Y04
waived preseason, Minnesota A-League
SJ Pecorelli, Lindon R3P10Y04
finished college, reportedly to tryout midseason after that, maybe in camp next year? maybe on USL squad (think I saw his name somewhere); SJ with unfilled DEV spot all year
LA McGill, David R4P03Y04
COL Richards, Kevin R4P05Y04
KC Alberts, Jay R4P07Y04
CHI Hucles, Phil R4P09Y04
SJ Puseck, Marin R4P10Y04
CLB (f DAL) Crew, Adom R5P01Y04
i think he didn't impress preseason
LA Perry, Jason R5P03Y04
DC Hudson, Kevin R5P04Y04
?left soccer (someone seems to know)
MET David, Johnny R5P06Y04
? went trying out in Portugal
KC (f NE) Barber, Ryan R5P08Y04
? might have seen his name USL
CHI (f DAL) McGowan, Ryan R6P01Y04
CLB Haefner, Matthew R6P02Y04
DAL (f DC) Miranda, Edwin R6P04Y04
COL Pulido, John R6P05Y04
? Canadian USL IIRC
CHI McManus, Tony R6P09Y04
? Virginia Beach
I think one of the Fire draftees here returned for HOF game
I'll update this a little later. LA, KC, & CHI didn't have the roster room for a lot of these guys. COL seemed to draft and then not offer (instead Erush, Cila, D dlt all undrafted to DEV)
Why? I don't see any good reason.
These are off the top of my head.
If it's a non-guaranteed contract, it gives MLS the ability to bring the players in to training camp and know they'll be there on draft day when making the selection.
Guys like Occean wouldn't slip away.
Fans of COL and NE wouldn't have to stand for their teams drafting Gregorio and White when many knew they were going overseas.
It isn't a great solution.
I've considered the NHL system as possibly useful. In the NHL, teams can draft Europeans, and if they don't come over to North America, the team retains their rights until they do. Most player rights are held until 31 y/o unless a player isn't offered a new contract or gets older and is stuck in the minor leagues (has to clear waivers).
Guys like Spector, Gooch, etc could be drafted and the team could wait on them instead of the current allocation system being used. It'd be interesting. LA has done this sort of speculation on the 2 year system using late draft picks on guys like Gibbs and Robbie Russell (2nd round) and now teams are taking the gamble on White and Gregorio. Sometimes it works like with Whitfield and Stephen Armstrong and the players return. I guess it'd just be interesting to me to see where teams place value on all US talent. Practically it'd be dangerous cause some of these guys might not return for a long time if ever. But it'd make round 2 & 3 more exciting and maybe the draft would be expanded to 8 rounds.
updated list: (not sure if "waived" players still have MLS rights retained, probably) . I scanned USL rosters again but only the "top" PDL teams. There's some league in the west that's semi-pro but I can't remember their website and I think it had some recognizable names
documented released/waived: Wilson, Puseck, Miranda, and maybe a couple of more, will double check later
found some team for all but Haefner, McGowan, Crew, Hudson, and Richards
Adom Crew got postgraduate scholarship
Richards was on trial with Ross County in Scotland over the summer. He got good reviews on the fan sites, but this link (near the bottom) suggests that money was a factor in their not signing him ...
"How can we afford to bring in Mahood when we couldnt afford to bring in either Kevin Richards or Karim Boukraa?"
I couldn't find anything more official.
A bit more info on Richards ... currently, he's apparently living in London but not attached with any club. As an '81, he could be a TI in MLS next year.
I believe that this is the recent history of college seniors whose signings were announced prior to the MLS draft:
2003: Dunivant, Levesque
(When Levesque tore his ACL before the draft, he was given developmental status to keep him in the league. He later agreed to annul his contract and become a Developmental Player.)
2002: Gbandi, DaPra, Fahim, Nusum, L.Gonzalez
By and large, the signings weren't very successful. Unless the league gets hit with a larger number of surprising foreign-bound departures (Gregorio and White were not surprising), it doesn't seem worth the effort of negotiating.
2004 included Wingert, when Nunez was also signed. I read somewhere Ngwenya was signed before the draft, so I think MLS doesn't announce all the signings. Taylor and Buete may have been signed, cause they were on the senior roster all year and no other first rounders were unsigned (it'd be dangerous to have a first rounder leave like Gregorio and White when 3 p40s and Wingert were all on the board.
In 2003, Noonan, Cole, and Thomas were also signed in addition to those 2. For 2002 I'd have to go back and look.
I wouldn't suggest negotiating too much and if it impeded signing the second and third rounders to DEV contracts, then there might not be too many out there being left unsigned. But it's a shame top draft picks sometimes go overseas, just makes it tough to plan a draft. I just wish I could see where teams really valued Gregorio and White to track their progress vs the rest of the draft pool.
So Richards would have been a TI? How about any of the others not joining MLS. This is why guys like Brillant, Dorman, etc fall in the draft. The increase in TI spots and SIs will help their case. But it doesn't help that a lot of these guys are already 23 & 24 when graduating. Guys like Sumed and Cann got cut this year probably cause of their age and impending SI status.
What's also interesting is the list of players who didn't attend the MLS combine. Some may have been injured or in school. And Adu and Wingert were signed before the draft. But it's no mystery that some of these players might have not been looking too seriously at MLS careers. Some may have attended preseason camps, still collecting that info.
KC Barber, Ryan R5P08Y04
NE Brilliant, Felix R6P06Y04
CHI Clanton, Denny R4P08Y04
MET David, Johnny R5P06Y04
KC Hesmer, Will R2P07Y04
LA McGill, David R4P03Y04
CHI McGowan, Ryan R6P01Y04
MET Occean, Olivier R3P06Y04
MET Parke, Jeff R6P10Y04
CHI Pilarski, Ian R5P09Y04
COL Richards, Kevin R4P05Y04
COL Taylor, Kevin R3P05Y04
NE White, Jeremiah R3P03Y04
SJ Wilson, Mike R3P07Y04
CLB Wingert, Chris R2P02Y04S1
Brillant, Parke, Clanton, Hesmer, and Pilarski all ended up on the roster. Adu and Wingert too of course. Parke I read had his coach send a videotape to the Metrostars. Occean left preseason for Odd Greenland. For some reason I noted "attended" next to Kevin Taylor (don't remember why). White left for Europe. As did Richards (not sure if he showed for Rapids camp). Wilson was officially cut preseason. David was in Metrostars camp. That leaves Barber, McGill, McGowan as the mystery cases. McGill went back to Ireland. I can't find anything really on Barber or McGowan. McGowan played with a Seton Hall alumni team this summer. I'm not sure either pursued pro soccer. Barber was a local guy with U Missouri-KC and KC PDL connections. Guys like Jay Alberts, Matt Haefner, and Adom Crew were Ivy Leaguers so they likely have other career opportunities quite comepetive with MLS (esp DEV) pay. Pusek is Canadian. Richards - Bermuda. Sounds like Hudson turned down a dev contract or didn't show in camp (someone seemed to know, will search DC forum). Wilson is from New Zealand.
found this on Kevin Hudson
sounds like he never attended camp and got a decent job. not to easy to search for (Ray Hudson, Kevin Payne, Kevin Ara)
Thanks for augmenting the list of pre-draft signees. FYI, Kevin Taylor definitely attended the combine ... he may have been a late replacement. Will Hesmer was the only injury absentee that I know of.
I think it's interesting how many of the other draftees came from colleges that were local to their MLS teams, or because of other fairly direct connections (e.g. Clanton playing for the Fire Reserves, Parke's coach being a friend of Bradley's). It lends some support to the idea that the league's scouting really is inadequate.
I believe Haefner was signed by the Crew and then released. He appeared in several matches for us in the preseason, during his college spring break.
several of these players on the list played preseason. they don't have to sign to do so. Occean played for Metrostars during the preseason but wasn't under contract and was signed away by a team that saw him play an exhibition in Europe. i'll update the list at some point to include those that atteneded preseason camps & played in exhibitions
Columbus with Ritch, Sutton, Traeger & 3 p40s didn't have room on it's dev roster for all its picks and even cut a former DEV - Ueltschey (GK). Same deal with Chicago (10 picks, 3 p40s already). With the bump of dev spots to 10, I expect most draft picks now can get a dev contract if they want one. Many of these guys were facing full dev squads or would have been TIs. A few went to Europe. A few got nonsoccer opportunities. Some may be back in camp next preseason, since MLS draft rights last 2 years.
I'm probably going to try and figure out who exactly went pro in 2004. It'll be a while before I review all the yanks abroad and USL info, but as a start, I'm going to try and put together a more complete list of what happened to the 2004 draftees.
I'm still calling it p40 here. I'm not looking at age yet for 05 stats.
Pick Team Player 2004 teams, 2005 status
1 D.C. United Freddy Adu DC p40; same
2 Columbus Chad Marshall CLB p40; CLB SNR
3 Los Angeles Joseph Ngwenya LA TI; LA SI
4 Kansas City Matt Taylor KC SNR; CDC SNR
5 San Jose Ryan Cochrane SJ p40; same
6 Dallas Ramon Nuñez DAL JI (DEV/TI); DAL YI/DEV
7 Dallas Clarence Goodson DAL p40; same
8 New England Clint Dempsey NE p40; NE SNR
9 Chicago Scott Buete CHI SNR; same
10 San Jose Steve Cronin SJ p40; LA p40
Pick Team Player
11 Chicago Leonard Griffin CHI SNR->DEV; CHI DEV or SNR?
12 Columbus Chris Wingert CLB SNR; same
13 Los Angeles Josh Gardner LA p40; same
14 Los Angeles Ned Grabavoy LA p40; same
15 Colorado Adolfo Gregorio Darlington (England 4); same
16 Colorado Adrian Cann COL TI->Toronto, A-League; ?same
17 Kansas City Will Hesmer KC DEV; KC SNR
18 MetroStars Seth Stammler MET DEV; MET DEV or SNR?
19 Chicago Matt Pickens CHI DEV; CHI DEV or SNR?
20 Chicago Sumed Ibrahim CHI TI->unattached; ???
Pick Team Player
21 MetroStars Zach Wells --- MET SNR; same
22 Los Angeles Guillermo Arzate --- Portland (A-League); Portland (USL 1)
23 New England Jeremiah White --- OFK Belgrade-> Panserraikos, Greece; unattached
24 D.C. United Kevin Ara --- DC SNR; RSL (released preseason)
25 Colorado Kevin Taylor --- Michigan, PDL; ???
26 MetroStars Olivier Occean --- (TI) Odd Grenland (Norway), same
27 San Jose Mike Wilson --- (TI) Minnesota (A-League); ???
28 Chicago Khari Stephenson --- KC DEV/TI, KC
29 Dallas Ty Maurin --- DAL DEV->DAL SNR; DAL DEV
30 San Jose Lindon Pecorelli --- finished school->New Hampshire (PSL) - never played; released SJ preseason camp
Pick Team Player
31 Dallas David Wagenfuhr --- DAL SNR->DEV; DAL SNR
32 Columbus Jamal Sutton --- CLB DEV; CLB DEV or SNR?
33 Los Angeles David McGill --- Dublin City (Ireland); ?same
34 D.C. United Joshua Gros --- DC SNR; same
35 Colorado Kevin Richards --- (TI) trialed in Scotland, lived in UK, Bermuda NT; reportedly invited back to Colorado for a trial but
36 MetroStars Michael Bradley --- MET p40; same
37 Kansas City Jay Alberts --- Minnesota (a-league); KC preseason trialist
38 Chicago Denny Clanton --- CHI DEV; CHI DEV or SNR?
39 Chicago Phil Hucles --- injured while trialing Virginia Beach (a-league); ???
40 San Jose Marin Pusek --- (TI) Toronto (a-league) - DNP; ???
Pick Team Player
41 Columbus Adom Crew --- postgraduate studies; ???
42 Columbus Luke Vercollone --- NE DEV; NE DEV or SNR
43 Los Angeles Jason Perry --- Syracuse (a-league); ???
44 D.C. United Kevin Hudson --- non-soccer job; likely the same
45 Colorado Gary Sullivan --- COL DEV; retired (studies at Adelphi)
46 MetroStars Johnny David --- (US citizen born in Portugal) Chaves (Portugal 2); ??? (? still with club)
47 Kansas City Justin Detter --- KC DEV; KC DEV or SNR
48 Kansas City Ryan Barber --- ?unknown; ???
49 Chicago Ian Pilarski --- CHI DEV->unattached;Rochester(a-league)-was there on loan in 04
50 San Jose Tighe Dombrowski --- SJ DEV; same
Pick Team Player
51 Chicago Ryan McGowan --- played with Seton Hall alumni in match; unknown
52 Columbus Matt Haefner --- Penn GK, may have finished degree? -> unknown
53 Los Angeles Alan Gordon --- Portland (a-league)->LA DEV; LA DEV or SNR
54 Dallas Edwin Miranda --- (US citizen born in El Salvador) Portland (a-league); Portland (USL 1)
55 Colorado John Pulido --- Boulder Rapids Reserves (PDL); COL preseason trialist
56 New England Felix Brillant --- NE TI; NE SI
57 Los Angeles Chris Aloisi --- LA DEV; SJ SNR
58 New England Andy Dorman --- NE DEV/TI; NE YI/DEV or SNR?
59 Chicago Tony McManus --- Virginia Beach (a-league); ?same
60 MetroStars Jeff Parke --- MET SNR; same
Troy Perkins DC DEV->SNR;same
Jordan Cila COL DEV->RSL DEV or SNR?
Michael Erush COL DEV; COL DEV or SNR?
Brian Roberts Minnesota (a-league)->KC DEV; KC DEV or SNR?
Perek Belleh Rochester (a-league)->NE DEV/GC; KC DEV or SNR?
Baumstark was in the draft pool but already under contract to MLS and remained so.
Combine players not to get drafted or make MLS:
Simon Bird, England, ???; ???
Garthfield Whyte, Jamaica, ???; ???
Eric Cronkrite, USA, Portland; ?same
44 Andrew Pusateri M 21 5-9 160 St. Louis, Mo. St. Louis Univ.
Attila Vendegh, Slovakia, Syracuse & Atlanta (a-league-order ?); ???
McColm Cephas, Liberia, Virginia Beach (a-league)
Victor Guerrero, USA, , ???; ???
Mario Gonzalez, USA, ???; ???
Jack Cummings, USA, ???; ???
A.J. Herrera, USA, ???; ???
Kirk Harwat, USA, Borussia Monchengladbach; same
Aaron Paye, USA, Minnesota (a-league); ?same
Steven Kehoe, Wales, Pittsburgh (PSL); ?same
Kenny Cutler, USA, ???; RSL preseason roster
Josh Smith, USA, Charleston (a-league); ?same
MLS draft pool, undrafted, non-combine, non-MLS in 04 (may search for clubs later)
Jacob Banas Concordia University GK 6-1 180 23 Cedarsburg WI USA
Tim Bezbatchenko University of Richmond M 5-9 Westerville OH USA
Tim Brown University of Cincinnati M 6-1 178 Wellington New Zealand
McNeil Cronin Furman D-M 6-1 185 21 Winston Salem NC USA
Cesar Cuellar UCONN F 6-3 185 Santa Cruz Bolivia
Nick Gannon St. Louis University D 5-11 185 22 Dallas TX USA
Ryan Glynn Bradley D 6-1 175 22 Aurora CO USA
Jeff Hare Princeton D 6-1 170 22 Richmond VA USA
Kellen Hirota University of San Diego D 6-0 170 Riverside CA USA
Joe Lampert UNC - Charlotte D 5-11 170 Golden CO USA
Nino Marcantonio University of Maryland M 5-9 160 Bethesda MD USA
Cliff McKinley UCLA F 5-11 155 21 Fountain Valley CA USA
Kurt Ness Oregon State University D 5-10 170 22 Redmond WA USA
Hector Orellano Cal State Fullerton F 5-6 140 East Los Angeles CA USA
Damien Quinn Dartmouth M 6-1 170 San Diego CA USA
Kevin Sapanli San Diego State M 5-8 150 San Diego CA USA
Weston Saunders Wake Forest University D 6-2 180 Columbus NE USA
Joe Vidmar University of Richmond M 6-0 Brookfield IL USA
Kevin Wickart St. Louis University D 6-2 190 22 Lisle IL USA
a-league draftees by US teams (nonMLSdraftpool)
13 Seattle Troy Ready M U of Washington (Spokane Shadow)
26 Rochester Matthew Delicate F Virginia Commonwealth (Richmond Kickers Future)
27 Charleston Ricky Charles F USC-Spartanburg
29 Seattle James Vert M Seattle U (Seattle Sounders Select)
30 Minnesota Bobby Lish M U of Wisconsin-Milwaukee (Wisconsin Rebels)
32 Milwaukee Chad Riley M Notre Dame (Indiana Invaders)
a-league draftees by Canadian teams (nonMLSdraftpool)
2 Edmonton Damian Pottinger M/F Duquesne University
3 Calgary Aaron Richer D U of British Columbia
12 Vancouver Kevin Crouch F Simon Fraser
18 Edmonton Paul Dhaliwhal M/F Bowling Green
19 Calgary Mathias Mueller D Embry-Riddle
21 Toronto Kareem Morgan D U of Alabama
28 Vancouver Jordan Robinson G U of Victoria
non of the US players have stats for the team that drafted them. I'll search more later. Charles (Grenada national team) was in Crew camp for a while this preseason.
unique MISL draftees:
ST. LOUIS Cal Thomas, F SIU-Edwardsville
3 DALLAS Trey Vaut, M/F Oral Roberts University
4 SAN DIEGO Scott Burcar, M Seattle-Washington
5 KANSAS CITY Drew Perkins, M Univ of Missouri – Kansas City
6 BALTIMORE Marco Angelini, F Univ. of Maryland – Balt. County
12 KANSAS CITY (from Dallas) Geoff Miles, M/D UMKC
13 MILWAUKEE (from San Diego) Dominik Jakubek, GK Cal State – Chico
14 CLEVELAND (from Kansas City) Tim O'Neil, D St. John's University
21 DALLAS Joe Crump, GK Univ. of NC-Greensboro
23 KANSAS CITY Jason Woods, D UMKC
25 CLEVELAND Said Ali, F Robert Morris University
26 PHILADELPHIA Jamie Mullarkey, F Lafayette
30 DALLAS Doug Pruett, D UNC-Greensboro
31 SAN DIEGO Tom McMenemy, F Columbia University
32 KANSAS CITY Justin Walker, M/F UMKC
33 BALTIMORE David Schofield, F Long Island University
34 CLEVELAND Oskar Tilly, F Long Island University
35 PHILADELPHIA Kamar Samuels, D East Stroudsburg University
36 MILWAUKEE Branko Savic, M Lindenwood University
39 DALLAS Scott Duhl, F Western Michigan University
42 BALTIMORE Graham Albert, M William & Mary
43 CLEVELAND Neil Krause, F Boston College
44 PHILADELPHIA Rinaldo Chambers, F St. Peter's
I made some guesses about the international status of the players not in MLS. I'm not fully up to date if all the USL players are still under contract or not. Same for internationals playing abroad.
Some players may have turned down developmental deals. Some didn't show up for preseason camp. Some did and got cut. Most teams had full developmental rosters at the beginning of 2004. LA, COL, DAL, MET, CLB, CHI, DC I recall as full. KC's was full until waiving Wolde Harris and promoting Jewsbury (I think at the last second) and later was filled by Roberts. NE didn't fill theirs but added Belleh and Thompson later on. SJ had 1 spot open but was reportedly saving it in case Pecorelli returned after finishing school. The TI's they waived (Pusek and Wilson) may have been too old for DEV. I'm pretty sure Kevind Richards hasn't been travelling with the Rapids. Bermuda's paper reported he didn't get a spot because of the foreign limits and now with more YI spots he was invited back (reported 2/5) and that was just before the Rapids "open tryouts" but I don't know if he attended.
Most ever draft pick joined a team professionally in the US or Europe. Adom Crew got a scholarship for postgraduate studies that I'm guessing he used. I recall reading something about him trialing in USL and think he played preseason with the Crew. Haefner was in Columbus's preseason camp but after that I find nothing. I think Richards spent 2004 looking for a club in the UK but remains unsigned. Phil Hucles reportedly impressed at a USL trial but didn't sign due to injury. I think Kevin Hudson is the one who got a business -type job in Florida. I'm not sure if he attended DC's camp or was offered a contract. Ryan McGowan I have no club for except his participation in a Seton Hall alumni match. His PDL club from 03 (Jersey) folded early in 04 IIRC. So I think it's just these 6 players that didn't get pro contracts during 04 (not counting the 2 PDL players Pulido and Taylor and the USL no-appearance players in Pusek and Pecorelli)
MLS full roster
3 Los Angeles Joseph Ngwenya
4 Kansas City Matt Taylor
9 Chicago Scott Buete
12 Columbus Chris Wingert
24 D.C. United Kevin Ara (waived)
34 D.C. United Joshua Gros
56 New England Felix Brillant
60 MetroStars Jeff Parke
MLS p40 -> graduated
2 Columbus Chad Marshall
8 New England Clint Dempsey
1 D.C. United Freddy Adu
5 San Jose Ryan Cochrane
6 Dallas Ramon Nuñez (JI)
7 Dallas Clarence Goodson
10 San Jose Steve Cronin (traded to LA)
13 Los Angeles Josh Gardner
14 Los Angeles Ned Grabavoy
36 MetroStars Michael Bradley
MLS full roster->DEV
11 Chicago Leonard Griffin
31 Dallas David Wagenfuhr
20 Chicago Sumed Ibrahim
16 Colorado Adrian Cann
MLS DEV->full roster
29 Dallas Ty Maurin
undrafted Troy Perkins (DC)
17 Kansas City Will Hesmer (promoted)
18 MetroStars Seth Stammler
19 Chicago Matt Pickens
21 MetroStars Zach Wells
28 Chicago Khari Stephenson (to KC 04; promoted)
32 Columbus Jamal Sutton
38 Chicago Denny Clanton
42 Columbus Luke Vercollone (to NE 04)
45 Colorado Gary Sullivan (retired)
47 Kansas City Justin Detter
49 Chicago Ian Pilarski (released)
50 San Jose Tighe Dombrowski
57 Los Angeles Chris Aloisi (traded to SJ)
58 New England Andy Dorman
undrafted Jordan Cila (COL, RSL in 05)
undrafted Michael Erush (COL)
53 Los Angeles Alan Gordon
undrafted Brian Roberts (KC)
undrafted Perek Belleh (GC to NE)
22 Los Angeles Guillermo Arzate
27 San Jose Mike Wilson
37 Kansas City Jay Alberts (returns 05 trial)
39 Chicago Phil Hucles (injured before signed)
40 San Jose Marin Pusek
43 Los Angeles Jason Perry
54 Dallas Edwin Miranda
59 Chicago Tony McManus
30 San Jose Lindon Pecorelli (returns 05 trial)
25 Colorado Kevin Taylor
55 Colorado John Pulido (returns 05 trial)
15 Colorado Adolfo Gregorio
23 New England Jeremiah White (2 clubs, now unattached)
26 MetroStars Olivier Occean
33 Los Angeles David McGill
35 Colorado Kevin Richards (no club found?, ?trial in 05)
46 MetroStars Johnny David
41 Columbus Adom Crew (? graduate school)
44 D.C. United Kevin Hudson (? job with PriceWaterhouseCoopers)
48 Kansas City Ryan Barber
51 Chicago Ryan McGowan
52 Columbus Matt Haefner