MLS Cup Should Be The Day Following Thanksgiving

This would be funny if you weren't serious

 

You need to work on your sense of humor. The line was funny for lots of reasons.

The best jokes are the ones that have some truth in them or make some people uncomfortable, or at least think (perhaps differently) about something.

 

So you think we put a team in Atlanta just so that we could have a team under a dome so that we can play games in January? When 6 of the last 7 expansion teams were put in places that cannot support winter soccer? (And yes cannot. Not don't, not could, not maybe in a few years, but cannot)

And you think that, not only is that true, in contradiction to both evidence and common sense, but you think it's so true that it's making me uncomfortable?

You're usually a pretty decent guy with whom to talk, and I like engaging with intelligent people whom I disagree with, but seriously, kid, shut up with that bullshit.

 

I never said MLS would/could/should schedule (regular season) games in January.

You're unhelpfully taking the joke too far and/or are apparently unwilling or unable to see what a reasonable discussion could be within an agreeable set of parameters.

IMO, it would be easy (and not all that uncomfortable) for MLS to envision or even adopt a schedule that runs virtually parallel to say what they do in the German Bundesliga or Russia's top league, with their long winter breaks from league play. No, this is not the best or easy thing to do (now) for MLS, and it may never work for their domestic business -- but I do think MLS is looking for ways to improve/alter their business, and adjusting the status quo of their single calendar-year scheduling to some other scheduling alignment may be (or may not be) in their thinking and operational planning for the future. Who knows?

You've got to understand and recognize the parameters of the joke (or discussion, as the case may be), and the parameters of what the league might actually be considering, or not, in the long term.

 

Exactly. You could have MLS cup in May/June and play on all the exact dates that are currently played on. So I don't want to hear weather as an excuse. They play American football (which lasts much longer) outside in January in Wisconsin, but nobody is saying that MLS should do that. Take off for 6 weeks January to mid February. Last 3 weeks of December and end of Feb/start of March, you schedule all the games in warm weather cities: Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, LA, San Jose, Portland while not warm, is playable in December same with Seattle and to a lesser extent Vancouver. DC can get away with an early December/early-mid March game, Philly too. This also lets you avoid Houston and Atlanta in August.

This allows the league to ramp up after the Superbowl for the end of the year push. Hockey and Basketball playoffs and regular season baseball are A LOT easier to compete with than regular season NFL, NCAA football, hockey, and basketball. Season ends, short off-season (which every 4 years is completely filled with the World Cup), and then you're right back into it.

I actually wouldn't even mind a little Apertura and Clausura influence. Americans might not be ready to go all in on such a system. But you could give playoff spots based on first half performance, then wipe the slate clean and give spots off of 2nd half performance, but have wild card and seeding based off of a full table. That way, even for those February - June fans, when they come back from NFL, their team has a shot. Also, if you are a 365 fan, while games in August may seem meaningless for a championship decided in June, it would be a lot easier to focus if you knew there was a prize up for grabs by December.

 

See, some people appreciate quality jokes and reasonable analysis.

 

Envisioning it is one thing. Doing it would kill the sport in this country

Exactly. It's not good now, it won't be good later. Why are we still talking about it?

"I think this thing might be true, but who knows?" is not a valid way to present an argument. It's purely conjecture, dishonestly wrapped in the trappings of truth.

 

We're still talking about it because we are in a YBTD thread and we don't know what MLS will opt to do in the future and we're trying to have a discussion about when might be or when would be the best day within the calendar for MLS Cup.

And I would suggest that some would disagree with your statement that "it (holding the MLS post-season in May/June) won't be good later."

That's not what the NCAA seems to think.

So, I'll let your own conclusion be turned around as a response to your own claim of "Doing it would kill the sport in this country..."

 

Because NCAA Soccer really moves the needle

There's a difference between drawing conclusions based on available data and drawing a conclusion despite available data.

 

What available data do we have about D1 soccer leagues playing league games in the first 3 weeks of Dec and the last 2 weeks of Feb?

There's no point in making a conclusion. There is, or may be, a point in honestly having a discussion and analyzing such a possibility.

 

None, be we have nothing but data that says that the D1 Soccer league in America that plays March-November is the SINGLE GREATEST THINGS EVER TO HAPPEN TO SOCCER IN AMERICA, EVER. So there's that

 

Ok then, you (just like everyone speculating here) have got nothing to support your opinion about some future hypothetical.

So we're done here, and shouldn't talk about possible ways to make something that is clearly great possibly even BETTER? Heck, even your "March-November" was simply great as "April-October" not all that long ago. And honestly it is already "March-December" now and with MLS clubs playing in the CCL in February.

Things change and get tweaked.

A (farther) change in schedule may very well do nothing to aid MLS.

Or, at some point MLS may decide it will indeed want to try something to adjust their operations and attempt to alter and improve their overall business in some way.

Or, MLS will just always stick with their single calendar year scheduling status quo. Nobody knows. But anyone who wants to consider and discuss any available options for the future certainly could do that here in the YBTD forum. An MLS Cup final played in late May or early June could be a very good thing for the business of MLS in the future, imo.

 

.... and this is based on what now?

 

Lots of things and ideas could be involved with the analysis. Here's a sampling --

The advantages of not placing the MLS post-season up against American football season.

Not holding MLS league games during the busy/extended FIFA international windows that regularly occur in most June-July periods.

Aligning MLS's primary and secondary transfer windows to allow the league to better participate in the global market for players, and not seeing (so many) players come and go (unhelpfully) mid-season for MLS.

Aligning the MLS season end with the CCL season end, and not having MLS-qualified teams having to wait 9 months or so to start the regional club competition.

There are a good number of reasons to consider moving MLS Cup to late May or early June. And there are lots of good reasons for the league never to try such a thing.

 

Certainly looks that way (prior to the Feb. 14th blizzard):

@JimCantore @RedSox @MLB Crazy right?? We can't even SEE our field anymore... #nomoresnowplease pic.twitter.com/mlHaB7kFR9

— Gillette Stadium (@GilletteStadium) February 12, 2015

 

Yup, manageable with some (perhaps significant) postponements as needed, and some careful scheduling considerations of course.

Not every winter is this extreme/snowy. But yes, some are.

It would be a challenge (in some/many seasons) to manage using 3 or so weeks of Dec and 2 or so weeks of Feb for MLS. But I do think it is feasible, if not ideal.

And certainly harsh winters like this one will certainly impact MLS's thinking and planning and operational decisions going forward. Again, they many never move away from their current single calendar year schedule, but tweaks and maybe even some "drastic" operational change certainly could be possible (and something that they have been investigating and discussing fairly regularly in their recent history).

 

Isn't it more financially sound to have many many matches in the summer than don't interfere with handegg rather than a few sparse post-season matches?

Eh, I don't necessarily think that's the worst. The last few years MLS has been good about taking breaks for big FIFA events. And at the same time, MLSers will go into international duty in mid-season form while others are possibly burned-out from a full season.

Conversely, this is one of the few arguments I can kind of agree with on changing the schedule. But it's still not enough to justify it, in my opinion.

The mid-season joining of players is just going to happen. I don't think it's all that terrible, though. There are cases where coming in mid-season has been great (Keane) and at the same time clubs can negotiate to get the player there sooner (Giovinco.) And unless I'm mistaken our transfer windows line up conversely with several leagues.

Another argument I can give you. But again, I don't think that's reason enough. Personally, I like the current schedule seeing at CCL gives me a domestic soccer fix so I don't explode before the season starts.... but that's just me.

 

Like bailing on the CCL and USOC and playing an expanded, MLS-only schedule from April-Thanksgiving.

 

Quite possible. Wonder how US Soccer, CONCACAF and FIFA would all respond to such an operational choice by MLS.

 

One of the benefits would be having the flexibility to leave FIFA dates entirely or at least substantially open. Other than that FIFA can go pound sand. The other two would probably not be happy, but are they really getting their money's worth out of those products as they currently exist?

 

I don't see that being plausible, not with the goal of playing in Copa Lib. My guess is to get into Copa Lib we'll have to do a fair amount better in CCL to prove ourselves as if we can't produce teams who can win CCL, we have no business in Copa Lib.

Thanks for fighting the good fight, and that's not to say I agree with all this but you're actually taking the time to explain the reasons why a calendar switch might make sense, instead of whining like a brat like one or two others.

The reasons I think it makes sense you've touched on and one is clearly playing the most important games in May, rather than Nov/Dec with snow some places, freezing temps others, frozen pitches, football lines, etc. Forget about the fans in the seats for a second and dealing with cold weather, what's just as important or more important is that weather effects some of the most important matches of the season, and does so negatively. Have a Bund type schedule we'll still have weather issues but at least it's not during the playoffs and knockout games. Just wait until a TFC or Montreal or NE hosts MLS Cup and there's a mid-winter blizzard. It makes no sense to put teams in that situation after fighting all season to get to MLS Cup.

Another reason which will only increase as MLS has more internationals is rosters being gutted during summer tournaments. And not just the senior level either but increasingly at the Olympic/U23 and U20 level as well as more and more U20s are going to be pros. So we're talking MLS losing players not only every WC/GC/Confed Cup(if we qualify) or the Copa America in 2016, but also the Olympics and U20 WC on top of other youth tournaments, as well as ultimately other federation tournaments. Euro leagues deal with players going to the African Cup of Nations all the time, well just wait until we have legit Euro NTers here who leave to play in the Euros for a month every two years, plus going back and forth for qualification as Keane has done. That this issue will grow into quite a concern is largely ignored as many concentrate on the here and now and not where MLS is going. But don't tell me you think MLS will be a top leagues at some point and at the same time rosters and league play won't be heavily effected by these tournaments. To be a top league we'll have to be stacked with internationals.

Another as you bring up is aligning transfer windows. Not as much of an issue now as MLS doesn't produce much talent and doesn't buy much talent either. It relies on guys who are free and winding down their careers for the most part. But at some point some of our owners are going to want to participate in the global market(also a requirement to be a top league) and will be buying and selling more, and when that time comes aligning transfer windows weighs far more heavily, otherwise league play will take quite a hit after every summer transfer window with guys ushered in and out. Participation in the global market will also be a byproduct of improved development when and if it happens.

I don't see a calendar change making much of a difference right now as we're not close to a top league, don't produce much quality and barely participate in the global market on any level, but when those things change, and folks better hope they will as it's a requirement to being a top league, then it would make much more sense and when it makes sense economically, that's when it would happen and when/if we ultimately get to that point, less fans in attendance during cold Feb matches won't really matter as the league would have moved beyond being heavily, heavily reliant on gate receipts for revenue, which is where we currently are. Some complain about not going to a few games in the real cold and northern cities during Dec/Feb if those were regular season games, and I get that, but MLS will hopefully move beyond the point that matters, or play is good enough fans show up anyway like in football.

 

Look, I'm not saying that no change could ever be good, I'm just saying that the burden to prove that a change will be good, and "It might not be as catastrophically bad as people think" does not meet that burden

 

Why is playing in the Copa Lib the goal?

The MLS' goal is to be able to sell a massive television package to the US market. Everything that is not league soccer is a distraction from that interest.

And that's not just an American phenomenon. The nature of the sport globally is that everything that is not a domestic league is declining in popularity, attendance, prestige, and value. The exception is of course the Champions League, which is something that is without comparison and cannot be replicated in this hemisphere.

Cup competitions are fun and cool and something that makes soccer culture unique. But they are dying, and it would not be just gauchely American to get off of that horse while the getting is good, especially given the enormous value of compressing the season as we have discussed.

 

Well, not "the" goal, as in above all others but it's "a" goal, as is success in CCL. Success in international competitions, whether CCL, getting to the CWC or participating in Copa Lib are one of "the" goals of the league.

Now you may not like international competition and consider it a distraction, but other fans do want it, the league wants it and I'll add, is the one and only true way to compare quality of league and club to others.

In the end, what you want or I want doesn't matter, but there's no point in pretending like MLS will walk away from international competitions. Also, if MLS wants less distractions, first thing it should do is stop playing these stupid friendlies in the middle of the season.

 

There's no burden here. It is just a discussion of and recognition of the possibilities and long-term thinking/planning by the league.

The burden of the business rests with the MLS BoG. They'll constantly (if on longish timelines) reevaluate things and make operational decisions -- some of them consistent, some of them new and bringing change.