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Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by HalaMadrid, Jul 26, 2002.
From MLS Confidential, 25 July
Well, I've never heard that the field was sticky before.
Gotta keep those lolipops in yer mouths kiddies.
I'm not sure what to make of that. I'm left scratching my head. Makes you wonder where the Fire are on AEG's list of priorities. Looks like they're definitely behind the Galaxatives.
Man, even the league is ripping on Crapinal Stadium! How freaking sad is that???
I think I'll call all my friends and tell them to actively avoid watching this game on TV so they don't get completely turned off on soccer for life. Can't ESPN2 broadcast another game, please? It's not like they don't know this game will probably suck given the stadium and the heat.
I know it's not my money but if Anschutz really was thinking about the Fire and its fans he would have taken a chance on Arlington. We could have had a regulation sized grass field and all the stands in place from day one. Also it would have been in a better location to get to, with a bigger capacity. With all his money 25 million is like pocket change.
I know that the Fire organization and AEG made mistakes during the Arlington deal but I put most of the blame on the Arlington debacle on King Richard Daley II, not the Fire or AEG. There is no way in hell we're getting a Firehouse anywhere near the city of Chicago (including the inner suburbs) as long as Daley wants us in Soldier Field. He has the poltical clout to trash almost any permanent stadium deal like he helped trash the Arlington deal.
Are you kidding? a stadium is a drop in the bucket for Daley. If he can get what ever he wants done with O'hare, mind you, O'hare involves the U.S. Congress and other Federal institutions, then where the Fire plays is nothing.
Joe's point is about politics, power, not money. For Daley the revenues from the Fire may not matter, but they might for the park people, and you better believe that that relationship IS important to Mayor Quimby ... oh, er ... Daley.
Your "analysis" involving O'Hare is one big, fat red herring. Don't be a burden.
You hit the nail on the head. O'Hare or any other airport involves the Federal government over whom Daley has no control. A Firehouse doesn't. Daley can't bully the Feds like he can bully one suburb of Chicago.
The fact is that Daley wants the Fire in the new SF to help pay for the costs of its renovation. So he has the motivation to work as hard as he can to ruin any potential permanent Firehouse that would take the Fire out of SF. This is why we're not gettign a Firehouse anytime soon unless Anschutz pressures enough Illinois state politicians. Maybe some downstate or suburban Republicans would love to screw Daley over as much as Daley is screwing us.
Not true. First, when ramrodding the SF deal through, Daley was relying on rental and ancillary income from the Fire to make the numbers work. At $50,000 rent a game, they would have a tough time finding replacement income for roughly 20 days a year.
Second, a Firehouse built in the suburbs would also be used for a number of other events (concerts, sports etc.) that would potentially suck money away from the city if the alternatives of SF, the United Center, McCormick place etc. are passed over.
To think that Daley sees the Fire, and its potential stadium, as nothing but an annoying little gnat is naive. Obviously, its not an issue as large as O'Hare, but it has a big enough economic impact to warrant serious attention from King Richard. I always thought he should go by "Dick" to distinguish himself from his father.
Where do you get this?
MLS Confidential is a mailing from Soccer America, not the league.
OK, I stand corrected. I don't subscribe to e-mail lists as they clog my e-mail box so I figured if it was "MLS Confidential" it came from the league.
Still, SA has parroted any MLS positions for so long it's almost the same thing. It's still pretty bad when even a rabidly pro-soccer media source here rips a stadium as "renowned for its football lines, cramped dimensions, and a sticky surface that's unbearably hot in summer sunlight."
My other points re: Daley et. al. still stand.
As much as some people want Uncle Phil's head on a platter these days, you're getting on his case because he didn't make a bad business decision. No more than a five year commitment and $25 million down the drain isn't necessarily a good investment just because Tim Lieweke said okay.
I'm not 100% sure, but I'm guessing that, with the National Team tie-in and Home Depot deal, the L.A. project has a definite timeline where it pays itself off, even if MLS goes away. The Harrison stadium, as I last read it, has a pretty clear path to paying itself off. Arlington didn't, end of story. Yeah, there's an "in for a penny, in for a pound" argument to be made somewhere, but that's easy when it's not your money.
I understand all of your points, and i dont dissagree with them, however what i was really referring to was that the Illinois political machine can pretty much do what ever it wants.
There is no "Illinois political machine".
There is the Democratic Party Machine in Chicago that can influence everything that happens in Chicago and most of the surrounding counties and suburbs as long as the feds and the state government do not object too strongly. The Chicago Machine, however, is not the formidable organization it was under King Richard I and it cannot dominate state or federal politics as the battles over O'hare and the possible Peotone airport have amply demonstrated.
The Republican Party Machine is in solid control of all downstate politics and the wealthier surburban towns and counties.
If there is any hope for a permanent Firehouse anywhere near Chicago, it is with them and their hatred for Daley and his Machine. Technicaly, Daley must still obey state law and if the state legistlature ordains that a Firehouse be built in Chicago, Daley can fight and squirm and make it as difficult and time consuming as possible but in the end even he must submit. If I was AEG I'd be going over Daley's head and lobbying with the state government to approve a stadium deal.
Da Mare Richard I was known as Dick. Da Mare Richard II shall, in our house, be forever known as Ritchie.
And Joe, who is in control of the Illinois House? My Republicrat Ward Committeeman (13th Ward), Mike Madigan. Who will very likely be the next Governor of Illinois? Why 33rd Ward boss Richard Mell's son-in-law, Rod Blagojevich. If Pate Philip gets run out as State Senate President (there's another crook for ya) what Republicrat will replace him? Emil Jones from . . . Chicago.
I say go with a close in suburb with a large Hispanic population that will soon be looking for more honest ways to run a city (and honest pols too). One that can thumb their nose at Ritchie Daley and his sponge minions. Cicero!
originally posted by willydonc
Well Willy, from your mouth to the voters' ears as far as the elections go.
Cicero. Hehe, funny. Heh.
But I respectfully think you are missing the point. I firmly believe that Daley the Younger does not care a whit about the Fire except as a revenue enhancement for the Park District and the city.
I think Joe has hit on what a potnential endgame for building a Firehouse within the Chicago city limits would look like.
1.) Secure a deal with one of the collar county suburbs to build a stadium. Announce the fire will play in XXXX beginning April 200? and give notice that they are leaving Soldier Field - as I recall they (will) have that option under the new lease.
BTW, what info is there on the details of the 2004 and beyond leasing arrangments for SF?
2.) Someone on the Mayors staff brings it to Hizzoner's attention that several millions of dollars in Park District, misc. event and tourisim dollars is about to flee Our Fair City.
3.) Richie gets religion and a nice brownfields area -- ideally somewhere in the area withing the new South Loop developments, IIT the former public housing south of IIT and Sox Park (I will never call it Comiskey) -- is found to build a state-of-the art soccer facility for both the Fire and the huge number of city youth and adult leagues that play on (mostly) sub-standard pitches.
It plays the suburbs off against the city. Daley the Younger and the Democratic Machine agains the Kane Coutny Republican Machine. A nice bit of political jujitsu. Worst case scenario is we would get a Firehouse, but in the burbs. As long as it's near the Metra and if it can be built in reasonable proximity to a downtown area per Naperville, I can't see that being an altogether bad thing.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the upcoming elections. Will the fallout from Jim Ryan's various scandals be enough to overcome the fact that Republicans still control downstate counties, the ever-growing and increasingly influential wealthy DuPage county and the other rich suburbs? Will the waves of largely Republican wealthy ex-suburbanites flooding into the city eventually finally destroy the Democratic Machine here?
Ah, the ever-shifting sands of Illinois politics!
Anyway, should CART ever abandon its oval racetrack in Cicero, that would make an decent place to build a Firehouse. If Daley would allow it, that is.
George Ryan is the crooked current governor. Jim Ryan is running for governor now and I guess is fairly clean.
I know Daley wants the fire back in SF but it still seems that the fire could have played in arlington heights for a sure 5 years and the only thing holding it up was that anschutz didn't want to gamble 25 million that AP wouldn't extend the contract once five years were up. I still say considering the money he has and what we are forced to play on it would have been a decent gamble.
Joseph, thank you for explaining the demise of machine politics. As much as many still like to use it as a whipping boy for their own political vexations, it just isn't true.
There are very effective local political organizations at the Ward or township or county levels, in a few places. In most places those "organizations" exist a lot more in the minds of a few people than in reality. That's not to say there aren't very powerful office holder. Of course their are. But the "machine" of old does not exist any more. Let's stop talking about fiction.
Lastly, I come to BS to escape this stuff. If a political discussion is to continue, let's move it to a more appropriate forum.
seriously, there is a politics forum that would gladly take your business, guys.
Not to dredge up the long dead, but I have it on good authority that the city of Cicero offered to put the Fire in touch with a land owner who has some prime real estate available in their fair city and the team flat out ignored them (I'm talking land near the highway and within a half mile of the metra). To me this means either the Fire have a better location already scouted out or they have resigned themselves to Soldier Field for the foreseeable future. Don't get me wrong, there are many places I would rather watch the Fire play than Cicero but, this is a town that was seriously interested in seeing a stadium built, and also the one place within two hours drive of the loop not in the clutches of da Mayor. Sad to see the team not take advantage.
Are you joking? A stadium in Cicero? That is the last place a stadium would be built. The 'hood isn't that great or even safe, and I bet some folks wouldn't be welcomed there. Whatever
The fire was quoted as saying they were looking for a town to donate the land for the stadium.