MLS has tried their best to make the regular season worthless. All of the random cups, tourneys, three games in the first playoff round, expanded entry pool to MLS playoffs. Just to turn around and complain as you said about fixture congestion. It was created by MLS to devalue the MLS regular season and bring the eyeballs for the stupid ass league's cup and expanded playoffs. Shammy can flame suck it.
It's great that you guys love lower division soccer, but the average MLS fan is more likely to support an EPL, La Liga, Serie A or other team than ever even spend a half second thinking about lower division soccer in the US. The congestion at hand is a useless tournament that ends up being 8, then 4, then 2, then 1 MLS winning team competing in a mini-tournament for the "not-MLS Cup" trophy. I think its worth noting that I have hated the idea of an MLS playoff here for all of my over 13 years of posting and expansion is another area I have been critical. Disliking the Open Cup doesn't mean I think the current system of playoffs and whatever else is good. The All Star Game is a stupid American tradition, vestigial of broader sports in America and while harmless I don't care if we dump it. Friendlies as mentioned are fine and every team does them. It's a natural element of promoting yourself here and abroad so I don't get the hate. People love when AC Milan or Manchester United sends a contingent and it's important to the league and fans.
You start off with an incorrect statement - believing MLS clubs should play in the US's open soccer tournament does not imply love of lower division soccer. I don't think anyone here is arguing that point at all. The main issue is the BS that MLS uses to justify pulling out of the tournament makes no sense. The fixture congestion is MLS's fault. Playing MLS Next Pro teams should've been a choice. MLS is a joke of an entertainment venture that has over the last decade and a half marginalized the fan organizations and home-grown enthusiasm and outreach to chase extra games/dumb tourneys, and fake financial parity. I don't give a flying fcuk for lower division soccer but support its existence and growth. Outside of DCU and my local team I don't care about MLS. I didn't watch league's cup (and won't). The MLS playoff becomes a bigger middle finger to the regular season every year.
MLS doesnt want to say "the open cup is dumb as ******** and no one watches it and we don't make any money off it." Of course their statements sound BS, they are at least vaguely attempting to be tactful.
It's weird for me, but I can see both sides of the argument here. USOC seems like it's going nowhere, and MLS has decided to selfishly break up with the unambitious homely local girl in the hopes of finding some attractive foreign strange. Neither side looks good here. I admit that I forgot USOC exists most years, even though I always liked the idea of it.
That's what they said. It is their fault that no one watches it and they can't make money from it. It is MLS that created the situation that worked in their favor and gave them a reason to cut ties. MLS's behaviour and statements are the opposite of tact. Fcuk MLS.
I get the business side of it. No way that Benteke, Klich, Zimmerman, Jordan Morris and especially Messi should be at minor league stadiums playing on sub-standard surfaces. It’s a risk to major league players' bodies as well as a security nightmare for minor league hosts now that Messi is in the league. Most of the MLS teams don’t take it seriously until about the quarters or semifinals if they get lucky and get there with their reserves. They all treat it as something to keep the starters out of to not risk injury until the quarters or semis. The USSF needs to step up and make it into a big deal if they want MLS back. Don Garber made comments about how it’s not right to be able to see major league athletes at minor league venues. It dilutes the value of experiencing MLS quality players in person. There are also no TV rights as games are given away for free on Youtube. Meanwhile, the brand new made-for-TV leagues Cup just drew much more attention and TV subscriptions than the Open Cup ever did. MLS is a business that needs to grow and protect its brand. The USSF doesn’t do that as nobody cares except for the hardest of hardcore fans. MLS fans currently don't care much as we don’t fill the stadiums unless it’s for a final. MLS is right to take the Apple TV money for the Leagues Cup and play against major league competition in major league facilities rather than giving away poorly produced single camera games in minor league facilities for free on Youtube. Can’t say I like it personally but I get the league’s perspective on this one wanting to protect its brand as well as investment in its players’ talents. Edit - Just saw Goff's take. That's cool to look backwards and wax poetic about the Open Cup but he isn't the one paying to travel to minor league stadiums on a Tuesday night for no financial return (MLS is a business and DC United/MLS makes profit on each home league game at Audi Field) and he isn't the one paying contracts for an injured star who got injured because a bottom of the bench/minor league player goon injured a star. It happened to DC United back with Branko Boscovich. Brought him in as a DP. Was settling in and gelling with his teammates. Was then injured for the whole season by a goon on Philadelphia's end of bench. Came back the next year but couldn't play a whole game due to worries about reinjuring his knee. Yeah, that is something to avoid.
MLS teams make no stadium revenue when they travel to away games. MLS teams can field whichever players they want (and have). Players can be injured in any game by any other (or no other) player. That's the sport.
Anyway, let's be honest. Messi was never going to play on a high school field. Hell, none of Miami's starters were. And I presume Messi didn't play against some 4th division team in La Coupe de France either. Why would he? The argument that there are too many games is asinine on so many levels. If MLS really cared about it, they wouldn't have made up a month-long tournament in the middle of the damn season. Barely any MLS starters, well, start in the early rounds of the Open Cup. And MLS teams continue to book dumbshit friendlies. They can't complain about fixture congestion when they're playing against Medeama SC in the middle of the season.
I used to have things to do congestion but since they stuck SuperLiga 2 in the middle of the season all of the sudden some time opened up for me since I'm not going to do these games since the Open Cup is over. MLS finally has that spring/fall schedule that hardcores have been begging for. As for someone's brand, that's for some multinational trying to get me to buy their corn flakes instead of some store brand.
The injury to Boscovich happened at the Soccer Plex in Md. The game was against New England and the goon was a very young Diego Fagundez looking to prove himself. The field at the Plex was usually in good condition and DC chose to play there. That's how this old man remembers it.
A big part of the congestion is the length of the winter break. Half the teams in the league get November-February off and the 31 games are crammed into the remaining 8 months with CCL, Leagues Cup and Open Cup games all also fitting mostly in that time frame. There are at least 10 MLS teams in locales that could play through the winter. Why not go to a European calendar, have a three week winter break and only schedule games in those cities mid-November through mid-March? If you've gotta have MLS cup, limit it to 8 teams, single elminiation, and play it in late May-early June when you don't have to Ice Bowl it in the midwest, northeast and Canadia. Make Leagues Cup a preseason/early season tournament, and don't play MLS games in Texas, Florida, Georgia and NC in August. That way you're reducing the number of games, taking off just 6-8 weeks each year, and spreading the remaining games over the remaining 10 months. At that point the Open Cup isn't a burden and your players and stadium fans are a lot happier because they're not forced to endure sub-zero temperatures or sit around roasting while the players get water breaks.
Thank you for correcting me. I misrembered it as Philadelphia. Also good point about the SoccerPlex being a pro quality surface. I stand by my point about not risking injuring your DP's in a tournament that most of the fans don't know exists.
We have had this discussion since the beginning of the league. You can't really draw fans to games with a schedule that has 15 home games then 15 away games. You need a mixture of home and away games. It also vastly distorts the competition as the teams that start on the road will be in last place and have to play catch-up rather than a roughly even schedule.
Yeah, that's a really untenable schedule. It's unrealistic to expect fans to go to a game every weekend for 2-3 months in a row.
Or in general, US Americans can get harder and stop caring so much about a little rain at 35°F... I love a good horizontal rain at just above freezing temps for a football match. It really puts off the top players at clubs to face that kind of adversity if they are from like Miami or LA. I am not the norm.
Speaking of playing surfaces. We and most other teams routinely rolled out a full strength lineups at TFC, New England, Atlanta and Vancouver which all play on turf. With that being the case all the turf fields in the lower divisions get a pass as long as they aren't in a neglected state. This whole thing is contrived bull shit from Garber.
Basically, I want Messi League Soccer to punish the Inter Messis by forcing them to play in adverse conditions. Of course, Messi won't allow this so by default, Garber cannot displease his God/Emperor...
I wonder what has the bigger average per game attendance between 2nd divisions - soccer, hockey, beisbol, or basketball (is there a D2 niffle/murican-ball league)? in any event, I suppose except for golf, none of these other sports entertainment leagues have an Open- /inter-league tournament. Soccer is just a different aminal.
College hoops has an open/inter-league tournament that is one of the most popular sporting events in the country. In fact, that open/inter-league tournament is about the only thing that gives college hoops any relevance at all. Soccer's version could be even more dramatic and magical.
It's called NCAA Division 1 football. The biggest scam professional sports has foisted on the taxpayers in every state bar none. When the highest paid state employee in Alabama is the football coach, you know we are nearing the apocalypse.
There are different levels of turf. There is also worn turn versus freshly installed turf. But I agree with you that is a tertiary reason for not participating in the Open Cup. The biggest reason is the lack of revenue and fan interest. There is more revenue and fan interest in the Leagues Cup so go with that. If the USSF wants to invest in the Open Cup and make it so fans care, that could change.
The NBA G League draws about 4,000 fans per game. There isn't any TV contract that isn't bundled with the NBA. It's hard to directly compare minor league baseball because you'll get AAA teams all the way down to unaffiliated short season single A. The Fredericksburg Nationals, the AAA team for the Nats, averaged 4,000 in 2023. https://www.statscrew.com/minorbaseball/t-fn10001 The AHL ranges from 2,000 to 9,500. https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph_season.php?lid=AHL1941&sid=2023 There is no de jure minor league for the NFL. As @griffin1108 said, the NCAA is the de facto minor league for the NFL. The attendance there is high for historical reasons, i.e. it has been around longer than its major league counterpart. The USL Championship averages 5,000 across the league https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USL_Championship Looks like the all average about 5,000.
Official U.S. Soccer Statement: pic.twitter.com/Hw0EPTyyVy— U.S. Soccer (@ussoccer) December 20, 2023