MLS better than Norway/Belgium?

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by Allamerican74, Oct 22, 2004.

  1. aosthed

    aosthed Member

    Jul 16, 2004
    40º30' N 111º52' W
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Tjäna, vet du inte att det alltid handlar om Sverige? :p Nej, ja skoja bara - det var en grab som började snacka om Allsvenkan också... ;)
     
  2. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/ccoef2004.html

    These are official UEFA league rankings for the 2,003-04 season based upon the leagues records in UEFA Cups.

    To summarize : #1 is Spain (14.312 average); #2 France (13.500), #3 England (11.250); #4 Portugal (10.250); #5 Italy (8.775)... Norway's 9th, Belgium's 11th, Germany's Bundesliga 15th (their teams sucked last year in Euro play), Denmark's 18th, Greece's 20th, Sweden's 32nd.

    51 leagues are ranked.
     
  3. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
  4. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    No they didn´t. Brazil won the semifinal 1-0. And it was total domination as Brazil had most of the chances and dominated. The swedes cleared some of the line. The third place match endend 4-0 for Sweden over Bulgaria.
     
  5. Allamerican74

    Allamerican74 New Member

    Jun 5, 2004

    My observations here in England is that MLS is about the same level as the Championship...English 2nd division below the Premiership.
     
  6. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC
    More like midtable championship.
     
  7. Fulhamfc3

    Fulhamfc3 New Member

    Sep 26, 2004
    Las Vegas
    Is the Crew better than Rosenborg NO. Is the Crew better than Anderlecht NO. Could the Crew and Wizards compete in the Champions League NO.Could the Crew get a draw against Arsenal NO. The MLS is a good league but, it still needs time to grow. The MLS dosent have Relegation or Promotion thats another reason why some of the European leagues are better.
     
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, pro/rel enforces a short term mentality. It makes leagues weaker.
     
  9. brianzappa

    brianzappa Member

    Oct 21, 2003
    In a big country
    On a related note, here's where you can find out how common your name (or any name, for that matter) is in Norway:

    http://www.ssb.no/navn_en/
     
  10. Marquis de Sage

    Marquis de Sage New Member

    Jul 24, 2003
    Arlington, VA
    Rommul, this is a great point. It doens't mean that MLS would automatically churn out elite clubs if wealth and quality players were pooled in fewer clubs, but it does make it hard to compare two clubs, one European and the other American, that face totally different economic circumstances.

    The same could be said of differences between levels of competition. MLS teams are guaranteed of playing in MLS next year. Most European clubs face the prospect of relegation or promotion. Would MLS teams play better if there were more risk and reward riding the line?; if every game the Revs played was like the last game of the season against the Fire? Probably.
     
  11. savan

    savan New Member

    May 16, 2004
    Norway
    Hehe.. Vel, Tippeligaen er jo mye bedre enn Allsvenskan! :p
    Så det handler vel ikke alltid om Sverige? ;)
     
  12. CPRoyale

    CPRoyale New Member

    Apr 14, 2001
    Adams Morgan
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't confuse MLS/US NATS with Olympic Basketball my dear friend. I would argue that athleticism in the MLS and US Soccer has been below par internationally until recent years. Every new American generation contains superior athletes, but the 'hustle' team play has been a part of our culture for years. It is becuase in the past that we weren't as athletically talented. In conclusion, the US plays like the Danes/Swedes as a team and are overachievers. Still the Nordic's countries have players we simply don't currently have. That being said, these guys play abroad, and the domestic leagues in Denmark, Sweden, and Norway aren't superior to MLS in any way.
     
  13. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    How so?
     
  14. bluesbrother

    bluesbrother New Member

    Nov 1, 2004
    Lund, Sweden
    As a Swede this thread has been interesting to read, though I didn't read all five pages.
    Some general comments:

    1 Sweden got 9 milion inhabitants , Norway I think 4,5. US 250 milion. So the comparations are quite strange.

    2 In Sweden our first league has 14 teams, some of the teams in the bottom of the serie are from citys with a total population of less than 75 000. Therefore some of the teams aren't that good, they don't have the money to counterbid on the better players.

    3 We do NOT, have soccer academys in Scandinavia . We are not trying to produce eliteplayers. At least not while the players are still kids. The reason why we produce so many (if you compare to the size of this nation) good soccer- and hockey-players, swimmers etc, is because kids in general don't want to sit still. We have PA lessons in school all the way up to college, even though it getting less and less hours.

    What I'm trying to say is that comparing the footballplayers in USA and Scandinavia is useless, since USA is allmost as big as EU. It's rather the structure of the entire society in USA and Norway/Sweden/Denmark that should be compared. And by the way, election day tomorow :rolleyes:

    If the US population had been healthy, than Sweden wouldn't have won a single medal in the olympics and other events.

    :D So for more medals in the future... choose Kerry :D
     
  15. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    US's got almost 300.

    Ya, 'cos they'll freeze their Swerige behinds to park benches... brrrrrrr....

    BB, in the US, soccer isn't a popular <major league> sport.

    How highly do you think luge and biathlon rank?
     
  16. bluesbrother

    bluesbrother New Member

    Nov 1, 2004
    Lund, Sweden

    Thats right, but you have a population thats 33 times bigger so how popular does it have to be?
     
  17. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are the Revs and the Fire better than Sogndal? I'm about 99% certain they are. Most of the talent in any European league is concentrated in the top 3 or 4 clubs; Rosenborg is probably about as good player-for-player as a Rest Of The League XI. MLS, by comparison, spreads the talent around, which means the difference between first and last isn't very big.
     
  18. bluesbrother

    bluesbrother New Member

    Nov 1, 2004
    Lund, Sweden

    Have no idea about the quality of MLS but you’re right that there's a big difference in quality between the top clubs and the bottom clubs in all leagues in Europe. Norway, Scotland, Holland and Belgium are extreme, with the same winners every year.

    Do you have a regular system in US like we have here in Europe, with 1:st, 2:nd, 3:rd division etc, or is it closed like the NHL and NFL?
     
  19. PaulGascoigne

    PaulGascoigne Member+

    Feb 5, 2001
    Aotearoa/NZ
    ...and this is totally "IIRC", but I just saw something yesterday that showed the all-Norwegian league XI (in a 4-4-2 formation, maybe?) for 2004, and Rosenborg for the first time in a really long time didn't have a single person listed on there.

    This would tend to refute your argument, although not necessarily the argument that Rosenborg could be a hell of a lot better team-wise than anyone else.
     
  20. swedcrip34

    swedcrip34 New Member

    Mar 17, 2004
    www.uslsoccer.com

    that's most of the rest of pro/semi-pro soccer

    it's not a matter of how popular soccer is as much as that the quality players get "developed". That's only started to happen the last 5-10 years.
     
  21. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    For what?

    On the national team level, very little separates the US and Sweden, though Sweden's top players like Freddie Ljundberg and Zlatan Ibrahimovic are playing with the G-14 clubs and would rank higher than any US players at this moment.

    But, on the other hand, the US can field a lot more team speed.

    On the club level, the MLS is a salary-cap league, which precludes one dominating club. And this "average" MLS is about as good as roughly $2M can buy.
     
  22. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Without pro/rel, the 2nd and 3rd tier teams would have the option of blowing the team up, getting together a crew of youngsters, and hoping to ride them to the title before their salary demands necessitated them going to the big clubs. Think of the Cleveland Indians of the early 90s, or the Twins and A's now. With pro/rel, those teams would have to focus on surviving THIS YEAR, and not on building to win a championship 4 years down the road.

    I posted this on a thread that a Scot was posting on, and he said that was basically what was happening in Scotland, since for a couple of years, either the best team in the 2nd division didn't meet the SPL stadium standard, or one team was so horrible the other 11 teams were safe. He said that the midlevel teams in the SPL had, in fact, improved somewhat.
     
  23. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS is a closed, single-entity league, mainly because the single-entity system is seen as necessary for the financial survival of the league. All player contracts are owned by the league, not the clubs, though in practice the clubs are allowed to sign players at their own discretion as long as they stay within the league's salary restrictions and foreign player limits. (The simplest way to explain it, in European terms, is that the club says it wants a player and is willing to pay a certain salary, and the league will try to sign the player.)

    Promotion and relegation between divisions is probably unlikely to happen until soccer is much more popular in this country. The lower divisions have always been in poor health: there are many examples of clubs voluntarily dropping to lower divisions due to financial difficulties, and even a couple cases of clubs folding immediately after winning an A-League or D3 championship, and most A-League clubs' facilities would be an embarrassment in MLS.
     
  24. bluesbrother

    bluesbrother New Member

    Nov 1, 2004
    Lund, Sweden
    Thanks for the information, it's good in one way, because that stops the sallarys from rising too much. Like it did in the best leagues in Europe during the 90:s, but it feels like this lead to a situation where clubs swap players within the MLS a lot. That happens of course here too, but not that much. Most of the players are brought from lower divisions and other countries.


     
  25. seadonkey

    seadonkey Member

    Aug 1, 2000
    Dallas
    ya fir shir em el es ist vay bitter dan dee norski eind baylgeem leegs!
     

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