Migra and May 1st [NSR]

Discussion in 'Colombia' started by efernandez9, Apr 25, 2006.

  1. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    will you work next monday?

    How your boss sees the hispanic day

    do you see migra raids near you? yesterday they pick up 180 or more in florida (where?)

    lets talk about it
     
  2. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st


    The 180 or some more that they picked were not random aliens. Most of them were convicted and a deportation order hanged over their heads, rapist, thieves, drug dealers all sort of lesser criminals.

    While I foresee some migra raids I think that they will be targeted to this kind of aliens and the protest leaders. Well this is little Havanna so, I guess mostly everybody supports a fixed immigration policy, but at the same time this is America and if you don't work you don't earn, unless you're Ken Lay or somebody like him....

    My view: America can't live without the cheap (sometimes not so cheap) labor that illegal aliens provide, therefore criminalizing immigration won't get enough support in the senate and congress. Bush will get his way (guest workers program) because believe it or not that is another big break that he's giving to his deep-pocketted friends in farming and other industries.... (Harris the woman that managed the count of votes in Florida is a Citrus heiress, for example, think about payback time). Furthermore Republicans can't afford to anger Hispanic voters at a moment when their hold of the congress seems so weak.
     
  3. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    no le quieren decir amistia a un proceso migratorio que tiene que ser regularizado! primero hacen limpieza y despues anunciaran las reglas....

    los emigrantes estan zona ganadora....bush esta en el momento mas debil de la presente verdad politica de USA
     
  4. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    como estubo la bronca y el desfile de latinos en tu ciudad?
     
  5. lfsr1544

    lfsr1544 Member

    May 9, 2001
    Glen Rock, NJ
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    Here's my take. I feel I have an excellent perspective as I came into this country illegally with my dad in 1980. First is first. I think this country has the right AND obligation to close and secure it's borders. Times have changed. This is not an easy time in the world. And it's especially uneasy here in the states.

    This country has provided for me and my family
    in ways that no other place in the world could ever provide. It doesn't mean that I've lost my 'roots'.
    This is not to say that I don't understand or empathize with my fellow latinos, but there has to be a point of accountability and responsibility when you come to this country, be it illegal or legal. The same type of accountability needs to be registered by any and all
    american citizens who contribute to the problem by hiring an illegal workforce to make hefty profits. I can see the issue clearly from both sides. But it does mean that at some point, the bleeding does have to stop. We need to understand that we have made abundant mistakes as american citizens but also need at some point to restore the structure of our society.

    We need hard working people in this country who are willing to assimilate to the culture and language and eventually become a proper citizen of the state. We need the children of these immigrants, these soon to be "1st generation americans", to show the fruits of their parent's labor. Look at the chinese or indian cultures. I've never met a 'dumb' chinese or indian student. These kids are taught from when they're in diapers just how priviledged they are to be here in the US. They are taught that education is the way out of poverty.
    Instead what we now have is a 'dumbing down' of our latino culture here in the US, by having everything translated in Spanish/English. Immigrants don't need a handout...they need a hand up to succeed.How is anyone to learn if they don't have to? How is anyone to ask for help if they're afraid? Communication, my friends is key! If we can't communicate as human beings then we're doomed!

    Truth is, all we're doing as US citizens is enabling an environment that doesn't promote growth and harbors resentment by having allowed this to go on and on for the last 20 years. I'm not concerned about the 'illegal immigrant' taking my job or any job. There are thousands upon thousands of jobs here in the US. There's Plenty of land and opportunity for all. But there needs to be a give and take. The "give" portion would come from the immigrantwilling to submit to whatever regulations that include basic language skills prior to entering the country. This would help protect the immigrant by clearly helping him/her understand their rights and their position in society. It would also help gel a vast melting pot that looks much more like a tossed salad. And for the current illegal immigrants, to just have the US wave a magical wand and " voila"(sp?) , you're a citizen, is not realistic and lacks of any common sense. Now, if amongst the illegal immigrants we were to say, here is what will be required for you to stay and live in this country:

    1) proven job record
    2) company referral
    3) 5 US citizen referrals
    4) clean criminal record
    5) place to live
    6) knowledge of the language
    7) knowledge of US history
    8) clean bill of health
    9) Some type of G.E.D. level diploma (would have to be completed in the next 3 years)


    We need to have an orderly process that' s just and fair so that people can enter the country legally. I know the legal system from our countries are corrupt and slow and ill-equipped to enter into a process that becomes a win-win. Heck, this is why I have a nephew who is on a 15 year waiting list to get into the US...that's laughable.
    Or we can have US investment where we move the labor force back to their respective countries and have them have a guaranteed job with proper pay and
    benefits. I mean let's face it, the problem doesn't lie solely with the US, but with these corrupt governments in latin america.
     
  6. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    terrrific take and sample of my beliefs
     
  7. DPG0wnz redded

    DPG0wnz redded Red Card

    Aug 9, 2005
    Houston
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    lfsr1544 just made the post of the year.

    I also share the same beliefs. However, I am considered a "racist" for having those beliefs because I am a light-skinned hispanic. I even got banned from the Mexico forums because of this.
     
  8. sysco76

    sysco76 Member

    Oct 11, 2004
    Potomac Falls
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    lfsr1544 I agree 100% with your position. We must work something out for the immigrants that are here. We must also close down the border and stop more illegals from coming in and only let immigrants that go threw the proper channels to come to the states.

    Who knows what will happen though politicians just looks after themselves.:(
     
  9. Pibe#10

    Pibe#10 Member

    May 1, 2003
    ArmeniA
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    very nice post lfsr,

    it all comes down to one thing, accountability, immigrants (illegals) don't want to be accountable for their actions, they rather just get "lost in translation," work, claim their money, wire it home, and that's it.

    I heard a good solution the other day, something along the lines of - that immigrants should be given status based on their intentions here, like for the many men and women who are working here to sustain people back in their countries (wife, husband, children) they should be giving a work pertmit, but not full citizenship as they are not "living" here their lives, they are rather working and sending everything back home and building their "nest-egg" in another country. For the people who have moved their entire family here, and are raising children here, they should be put into a path towards citizenship, as long as they are uptodate on their taxes, no criminal record and the such.

    Anyway, I've heard a lot of good ideas, coming from both latinos and white americans, but the thing is that this issue has been allowed to grow "out of proportions" and is going to be very difficult (time consuming) for the country to come to an agreement on this issue.
     
  10. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    In my opinion, there are two real causes behind this problem :

    1. The disparity in income between developed and third world country. You cannot blame the immigrants that live in extreme poverty for trying to achieve better things for them and their families. Furthermore given the actual rules 99% of them won't be able to obtain legal access to the USA, therefore jump the fence is the only option.

    2. WTO has allowed industrialized countries to establish the free flow of goods, services and raw materials but not of labor. While I support a better regulation for the movement of people in and out the USA, at the end it is a problem of supply and demand of labor: USA needs labor (the cheaper the better) and Mexico and other Latin American countries have plenty of willing workers to provide it at reasonable prices. If only Americans were as councious about the good jobs being shipped to China and India as they are about the unwanted jobs being taken by migrant workers....
     
  11. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    mexicans in california and tejas take the issue as sole mexican problem....indication of that is the way they take the streets in spanish chants and mexican falgs, when in fact it should be the USA flag and chants in english to get a clear message acorss the ones making decisions.

    learn english- provide some degree of education and history - clean justice/criminal record and get a permit to work, recognize that the problem is not how to bend the rules but to follow them! In some instances that is how you get to pass your citizenship test and process, but that is my take to get working permit with limits!

    who is going to talk about TPs?
     
  12. DPG0wnz redded

    DPG0wnz redded Red Card

    Aug 9, 2005
    Houston
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    Exactly. Marching down the streets chanting "Mexico! Mexico! Mexico!" isn't going to get you much support from Americans who are going to control your fate.

    I welcome immigrants from ALL countries. Please come here for a better life but please try to do it the right way. When you become a citizen, you can chant whatever you want and I will have no problem with it. As a citizen you will be afforded that right.
     
  13. lfsr1544

    lfsr1544 Member

    May 9, 2001
    Glen Rock, NJ
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    Dapip, to take your first point. There are hundreds of impoverished CITIZENS here in the US.It's not only the 3rd world countries that struggle. We have our own issues to deal with! There are many people living check to check, on public assistance, and living in subpar environments. Be it the 'ghetto' in the urban setting or rural "landfills" of the country. We live in a place where there are clear irregularities and differences based on skin color, religion and sexual makeup. That's a fact. You're right, you can't blame these poor immigrants trying to improve their situation. You can blame the US for making it too easy for folks to come in to the states. BUT it doesn't mean that it's right and that we don't have an obligation to correct the situation and to hold people accountable for their actions. Most of the folks immigrating here today have no education, some have a criminal record and some lack complete ambition to succeed in life. Unfortunately these 'undesirables' are doing exactly what these corrupt govts south of the border want, which is to get rid of their problem and put in our doorstep. The issue with not learning the language and some sort of assimilation is a true problem and an embarrassment to our culture. As it is we struggle as latinos in this country to have some type of identity.
     
  14. Siempreconlamecha

    Apr 4, 2005
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    But let me take a guess, that you don't mind the garbage from the US being sent down to the south...old technology, expired medications, McDonalds:(
    It's a shame that goods can move from one place to anoter without any problems. However, people are so restricted.
    Are you afraid these people are going to take your job? make your life a little tougher?
    It seems like you have settled nicely in the states, what gives you that right and not people that want to do the same thing right now? Funny how your opinion would change if you were on the other side.
    Xenophobia is making our world shite, I think we have to quit encouraging it.

    How hypocritical is it, to desire an identity as a latino, yet you criticize the lack of assimilation. Maybe that's just the Canadian in me where we have a cultural mosaic instead of a cultural melting pot(USA).
     
  15. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    mecha.....so, when do you say that enough is enough?

    Times are changing from the cold war days to the 90 and now days....

    do you have limits.....that is why nations have borders and cks points to cross them, try to walk/drive to venezuela or ecuador now days and you will see the real answers!
     
  16. minus

    minus Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jul 18, 2004
    Miami,FL
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st


    Your the man...I couldn't agree more.
     
  17. Pibe#10

    Pibe#10 Member

    May 1, 2003
    ArmeniA
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    Here is what I heard a college student from D.C. say when she was giving her speech against the demonstrations......its not that we (legal latinos) are against illegal immigrants coming into this country and looking for a better life, like we all have. Its just that when we came into this county, we had to jump through all the legal hoops in order to forge a life of our own in this country......Then she went on saying that when her parents came here illegally, they knew they were braking the law, and that they were "criminals" and they had to start a long legal and costly process in order to acquire a legal status in these country (green card)......Then she said that what drove her to speak against her own people, is that now they simply want the government to give them legal status, and that their slogan is "We're not criminals," eventhough they are braking the law.

    to an extend I agree with her, why do they want to force this government to make them legal? why don't they want to go through the legalization process like the rest of the immigrants go through?

    Now, you made the comment of "being afraid of them taking our jobs." This is going to sound wrong, but the majority of immigrants who stay in this country illegally for 10-15 years whithout applying for a legal status, have a far less inferior educational background than any of us here can imagine.
     
  18. cms79

    cms79 Member

    Nov 25, 1998
    NYC
    Club:
    Nacional de Medellin
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    Who the f*ck cares what she went through, if these people have the oppurtunity to become citizens through a simplified process then so be it.

    And this whole BS about education being a requirement for citizenship is ridiculous, so how about the blacks or whites that decided to drop out of high school and not do anything with their life? should their citizenship be revoked?

    Seems to me that whitey got to all of you.

    I've been in this country for 25 years, I am never going to assimilate. Siempre sere primero colombiano, y despues mucho despues Americano.
     
  19. Pibe#10

    Pibe#10 Member

    May 1, 2003
    ArmeniA
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    I agree with you on that, you can't change your heritage.
     
  20. minus

    minus Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jul 18, 2004
    Miami,FL
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    Pibe:

    Why are they asking legalization? The majority pay taxes to U.S and get harrassed by la migra. They're going after the latin people instead of targeting the real terrorist.
     
  21. cms79

    cms79 Member

    Nov 25, 1998
    NYC
    Club:
    Nacional de Medellin
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    I don't know for a fact that they do pay taxes, and i honestly doubt that they do.
     
  22. Siempreconlamecha

    Apr 4, 2005
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    I have to say that I used to despise a lot of immigrants. You grow accustomed to a certain culture and these people that come in do not seem to fit in. But I've slowly become more sensitive to individual's needs.
    Now I might be way too idealistic but above my social status, above my nationality, above anything, I am a human being; and I believe people have to be more caring of each other because we are all in this fight together.
    If you want to live in happyland and ignore the problems of the world, drug yourself; because the problems are real and they are going to keep knocking on your door until we stand up and solve them. Having 'escaped' our troublesome nations should put us in a place to go back and make things right, not to forget about them because you are gone.
     
  23. DPG0wnz redded

    DPG0wnz redded Red Card

    Aug 9, 2005
    Houston
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    edit: found a more proper forum here to discuss the issue
     
  24. Pibe#10

    Pibe#10 Member

    May 1, 2003
    ArmeniA
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    yea, I don't think they do either.....
    you know the biggest think this government hates is people who don't pay taxes, and that's why their going after (illegal) immigrants who don't pay them at all.

    But who knows who this issue is going to solve itself, I believe one of the things that keeps driving this country forward, is immigration, because with it you have an influx of all kinds of people, people that work hard and keep this country growing at a tremendous rate, at the end I do hope this issue gets resolved in the best possible manner for everybody.
     
  25. minus

    minus Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jul 18, 2004
    Miami,FL
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Migra and May 1st

    Acutally,

    You guys should like at the figure of how many "illegal" actually paid their taxes.The goverment is using ITN in place of Social Securities and the figures are actually pretty high on tax returns made by illegal immigrants.
     

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