Metrostars mistreated

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by soccerdome, Aug 25, 2002.

  1. soccerdome

    soccerdome New Member

    Hey soccer fans. I'm here to inform you about a post that I think is working towards a good cause. It's under USA Men- E-mail Campaign for Harrison Stadium. Sorry, I don't know how to do a link. But anyway, it's about how the Metros can't have home field advantage this year because of The NY Sports Authority (or something like that) decided to have Rolling Stones Concerts instead. So the Metros won't be able to use the field in the playoffs. :( I'm not a Metrostar fan but, I feel this is just horrible and unfair. So if you want to do something about it or you feel the same way, go to this post and it has all the info you'll need or e-mail me ( Thanks for your support.

    P.S.- If someone could tell me how to do a link I would be very grateful. :)
  2. soccerdome

    soccerdome New Member

  3. metrocorazon

    metrocorazon Member

    May 14, 2000
    Its not unfair AT ALL!

    Its unfair to the Rolling Stones if they arent allowed to play 2 shows with 80,000+ people in the stands. They will make the stadium MORE money in those 2 shows than Metro will for 2 years. So quit your bitching and until Metro MLS can draw crowds blame it on the Front offices and league officials.
  4. Sure. Genius.
  5. Adrian

    Adrian Member

    Columbus Crew
    May 9, 1999
    Plain City, OH, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    Metrostars probably won't even make the playoffs anyway.
  6. kebzach

    kebzach Member

    Dec 30, 2000
    Greenfield, WI
    hey falcon-- the guy's got a point.

    you have a reputation as not having many of them.

    I'll side with Serg on this one.
  7. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Sporting Kansas City
    As will I. I am tired of soccer fans on these boards looking for handouts. It's up to us, and hopefully people like us, to show that there is money to be made on domestic soccer as a spectator sport. Until we show up and/or watch in numbers sufficient for anyone to make any money, we don't deserve jack squat.

    It would be nice if someone or something took the risk to build a fancy SSS in the hopes that it would generate revenues, but it's there money, and there choice. If I were a taxpayer in New Jersey, I'd be skeptical of any public funding of any facilities designed to benefit private for-profit groups, including soccer leagues.

    Soccer has a long and tortured history of losing tons of money for almost everyone involved. Soccer is the "Holy Grail" of American team sports. Everyone knows it's the "world's game", and they know that even American's will turn up. Things like WC94, WWC99, 60k at Soldier Field for Mexico/Argentina or a Thursday night crowd of 70k+ at Giants for Roma/Real Madrid don't go unnoticed. But in and of themselves, they don't tell anyone how to make money.

    The minute MLS, or any other entity, begins to start making money on TV ratings and attendance, you will see a rush of networks and advertisers to jump on board. The reason they don't do it now is because everyone before them has lost their proverbial shirts.

    Venue owners aren't into charity for private for-profit enterprises. They are in to maximizing revenue generation at the said venue. A couple of Rolling Stones concerts will fill the coffers far more quickly, with few short term headaches, than the MetroStars ever will.
  8. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm a New Jersey tax payer and a major soccer fan. I'd love to see the Metros get a stadium, but why should I foot the bill for another North Jersey stadium when St. Phil has more than enough money to build it himself? I might go to this place one time a year considering that it's two+ hours a way. You also have a state with a budget crunch, so this isn't exactly a well-timed expenditure in a time when a number of state employees are losing jobs.
  9. dsylvest

    dsylvest Member

    Jan 18, 1999
    um, there is an example of how to make money - and it is a good model. it is crew stadium.

    now, take that model - a small, relatively inexpensive stadium w/ good atmosphere and sightlines, and put it in the biggest market in america. think it'll work?

    mls won't depart from marginal economic viability until owners make one more big investment/commitment/sacrifice, and that is by privately funding small stadiums for there teams to play in. it changes mls' economics dramatically.
  10. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Sporting Kansas City
    Can you supply any figures to back that up? Seriously. Conjecture on BigSoccer is great, but we don't really know, do we. If Crew Stadium does turn a profit, how much of that is due to soccer events, and how much due to the fact that it is a convenient 23k seat venue? How much is also due to the ability to build it for less than 30MM?

    I'm sure Philip Anschutz would love to be able to build 23k stadiums next to major highways for only $30 million in, or near, Washington, DC; New York City; and Chicago, Illinois.

    If the ammortized debt on Crew Stadium were $60MM instead of $30MM how much money would they be making?
  11. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078


    i want my $2 :D
  12. metrocorazon

    metrocorazon Member

    May 14, 2000
    But youre NOT paying for it. Well not in the long term. The whole thing is to put the money to build it then the state of NJ will get a cut of parking revenues as well as other things. That will pay the state back. So all the state is doing is loaning the money. Not to mention the state will also MAKE money from the taxes on shops, restaurants, and residental space the project will create. The project isnt only about a stadium its about rebuilding that whole industrial part of Harrison, which currently is vacant. As in NOT making NJ any money. The state is actaully set to make its money back 100 times over the next 50 years.

    THe only thing that is halting the project is doubt over how well a soccer stadium would do, the fact that the Newark arena has added MORE money to be loaned to the bill, and most importantly, other county officials are bitching about their county losing money. Most notably Bergen county. Thats where the Meadowlands is. I mean if your county was losing a BIG chunk of money from the arena and even small crowd at soccer stadiums, you would be bitching too.

    Also we know that Crew stadium works, were not morons. Its much more complaicated to build in densely populated areas. You just cant buy land and build. Theres politics and host of other hurdles to go thru, thats what Metro officals are going thru now.
  13. eric d

    eric d Member

    Sep 9, 1998
    How much did the land cost that Crew Stadium is built on? It's rhetorical and that's the answer why that can be done in Columbus but not necessarily done like that in NY/NJ.
  14. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for adding the extra info about the project. I understand the issues at hand much better, and I am very sympathetic to the plight of both the Metros and their fans. I want to see the Metros get their own place to play, but NJ is a large and diverse state. The entire state pays for that stadium, the Meadowlands complex, and this new Nets arena despite the fact that they are not accessible to a good portion of the state. In my area, for instance, the teams that play in that area are simply not avalible to us. We don't get their games on TV, reports in the paper, nor is it easy to get there for a game.

    I know there's development issues and that the state may make some of the money back through parking revenue, but we all know politics. Once that money is paid out by the state and an "authority" is placed in charge of it, someone's political buddies are going to use it for pet projects and patronage. It'll be just like the Parkway and Turnpike Authorities and dare I say the NJSEA.

    That leaves me with same question, why should South Jersey pay for stadiums for teams (not just the Metros) that we can't support?

    Now on the flip side of that why should South Jersey get off scott free on the new Philly stadiums? At least I see it going both ways, so maybe what we get out of Philly stadiums is a sort of credit toward supporting the swamp.

    Now if this project could get done in Harrison and future money could be set aside for an MLS stadium in Camden, then I'd start speed dialing the state legislature right now. :)
  15. USAsoccer

    USAsoccer Member

    Jul 15, 1999
    Tampa, Florida
    Of course, this would not be a problem if the Metrostars had their own staduim.

    However, this idea that it is OK for the Taxpayer to build Baseball Stadiums and Hockey arena's but not soccer staduims is beyond me.

    I suspect that most hockey teams lose money. According to Baseball, it would appear they all lose money.

    Yet the Taxpayer is asked to spend hundreds of millions of dollars transferring wealth to very rich owners of these teams.

    However, many of you would hold soccer to a standard that no sports teams have been held to heretofore.

    How much is a Specific Soccer Staduim going to cost the taxpayer? 30 Million? How much for a baseball staduim.... 600 million? A hockey arena? 350 million?

    Someone explain the math to me.

    1) It would appear, based on Crew Staduim model, that the monetary risks are no worse with the Metrostars than say the New Jersey Devils or New York Yankees, based on a costs v. benefits analysis...

    2) On principal, everyone is opposed to taxpayer support for private staduims... but somenone tell me one example where any team has been denied funidng for a staduim (and stayed around to tell about it).

    3) Finally, to those hardliners out there, explain to me why the double standard? Or is this just another example of contrarian thinking...
  16. metrocorazon

    metrocorazon Member

    May 14, 2000
    Because the revenue made from the stadium will go to the state, you live in the state don't you?
  17. morenolsen

    morenolsen New Member

    Jan 28, 2002
    Let's have a weighted lottery for a new stadium...something tells me that the Metros will get it ;)
  18. soccerdome

    soccerdome New Member

    OK this debate is getting very interesting. But did anyone think of a stadium in, maybe, the NY area, close to NJ? Could that work?
  19. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, I live in the state, but when I was at Rutgers it often seemed like NJ was actually two distinctly different states. :)

    Like I said, or at least as I wanted to say, I'm not sold on the idea that a stadium will make money for the state. My feeling is that it will most directly affect the Harrison area. I don't think there is anyway the parking money will be enough to pay off the stadium bonds alone. I think the economics behind this are very weak for any stadium.

    Generally speaking, I have no problem with local governments helping to pay for a stadium. When you compare the cost of a small MLS stadium to the cost of a stadium for the other major sports, it is nowhere near the same. If the Metros have such a winner of a plan, I'm sure they could make it fly just like every other developer in the state.

    I'm sure I'd feel a little different if I were a Metro season ticket holder though. I'd love to see them get a stadium. If they get one, I hope I have a chance to see them open it. I was able to go to their very first home game, but I've only been able to go a handfull of times since 96. It's almost as easy for me to get to DC to go to a game, so you can see why I don't go often.

    Would it be easier to get to a game in Harrison? The swamp is a long ride, but its not difficult to get to perse.
  20. metrocorazon

    metrocorazon Member

    May 14, 2000
    Its NOT just parking(but remember this parking will also be used by daily NJ/NY communters NOT just gameday), the taxes generated from shops, shop that are NOT there RIGHT now generating the money, taxes on condos and other residential housing, etc.... Yes it will help Harrison the MOST by generating jobs, selling goods, and having people living in their town, but the state does see some of the money, and this isnt figured into 5 years, its done in the anticipation of making back the money over 20 years or so. The parking decks alone will generate a few million a year. Lets say:

    2,000 spots
    $10 a day(that's cheap)
    7 days a week
    is $140,00 a week
    x 48 weeks is

    Now thats just PARKING, we are not counting everything else that would generate 2x as much money in a year.

    But why should the Metros fork out ALL of the $60M just to make the state money? remember theres taxes on food, clothing, even the tickets. SO the Metros are asking to pay for some of the cost and the total amount is 100M or so most of it going to the development of the area on stuff such as roads and buildings.

    Remember all this is stuff you are going to benefit from wether you live in Harrison or in Cape May.

    All this ofcourse is specualtion on everyone's part. No one knows if people will come to the stadium. No one knows if they will spend their money in the new Harrison. No one knows if they will use the parking garages. WHich is why it is being debated upon.

    Yes, its closer to you and NYC people. NYC people can now take the PAth train which runs about every 10 minutes day and night or take a NJ transit train from Penn Station, NYC. People from Jersey can take any train that goes thru Newark, any of the tens of bus routes that stop at newark or just take the turnpike to the stadium
  21. soccerdome

    soccerdome New Member

  22. metrocorazon

    metrocorazon Member

    May 14, 2000
    Politics is even worse. Not to mention NYC is tight on land, if they decide to try and build in NYC it will take 3x the effort and palm greasing. Much easier in NJ. Im sure if something in NYC came up they would build. If you're going to build in LI or Upsate you might as well build in NJ. Its the same crap. The spot they have now is the best spot short of downtown NYC or Midtown.
  23. soccerdome

    soccerdome New Member

    Oh. I was thinking that since NJ is a smaller state, there would be less land to work with. But you made a good point. I'm not from around there so I don't know to much about the property.
  24. I'm never gonna sleep tonight. Kezbach says I have no points.

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