so the club was in a financial crisis for the whole time FR was there? the poor guy was not allowed to have any good players at any point in time? by the time his team went off the rails Barcelona were in a good financial position were they not? so what went wrong for him then? your completely off the mark if you actually a rookie coach was supposed to do what he achieved, Pep overachieved beyond what anyone though was possible regarding the other matter Guardiola was praising them, and so he should for they (Cruijff in particular) did great things with Barcelona hes till overtook their achievements and it is his Barcelona that is considered the greatest in the history of Barcelona. that was the point you can praise people and still have bettered them If you want to get paranoid about that is not my problem, but its pretty clear that your problem with Pep lies with the fact he is Spanish and that he is going to coach a German team two words, no shit of course Cruyff's influence is undeniable, everything has to start somewhere, but did he personally train every one of these players? or can other people take some of the credit aswell? or is that not allowed?, is everything that Barcelona wins from the day la masia was created is 100% due to Cruyff's influence....is that what you are saying?
Messi's life did not begin in la Masia, he was not supposed to be a pro athlete not with the medical condition that he had I dont find Zlatan to be a heroic person at all, just another guy with a chip on his shoulder, but that's my perception of him
Remember that Ronaldinho was not their first pick as key signing, as star signing. Beckham was and it is even questionable whether Ronaldinho was their second pick. Of course, Rijkaard couldn't know either how it turned out but don't pretend that he, or his bosses, could buy everyone they liked. Very simple, he wasn't a good manager. He was supposed to achieve a lot because he was just like his proteges nurtured within the club. He looked like someone without experience but in reality he had a lot of experience. Except when people from outside came in, like Zlatan who started to outscore his beloved Messi. There you saw that 'Pep' is a lot of pedantic manners without substance. Of course, but I don't see why you replied to my initial post. And you needed a lot of off-subject nonsense to make this point. And it is also clear to me that you are a culer in disguise. It is not the first time that you challenge everything what I write with missiles that miss target. What is the point? James and others said that Rijkaard (in my opinion Laporta) laid a lot of the foundations. I backed this idea with a quote of Guardiola. That's it. Of course Guardiola (and Spain in general) did very well after Rijkaard. In the ideal world their success wouldn't be allowed.
Zlatan's book is a self-hagiography. Everywhere Zlatan goes, his ego takes over and becomes a burden in vital matches. Everywhere he goes, clubs spend incredible amounts of money to win that one great trophy (the Champions League) - and fail. Everywhere he goes, fans at a certain point start jeering him. Everywhere he goes, he gets his famous tummyache and start moaning. Zlatan complains about the boring football and half empty stadiums in Italy (when he really cares about winning the CL) and gets a transfer to Barsa. Barsa manage NOT to win the CL the only time in the first three Guardiola years, with Zlatan spending most of semifinals vs Inter as a non-paying spectator. Meanwhile his old team wins the CL. Zlatan starts moaning about Barsa, Pep, Spanish spectators... etc etc etc. I saw Zamparini explaining Pastore's very average performs in PSG the other day. It seems that Zlatan feels threatened by el Flaco's popularity and has started bullying him. In today's Gazzetta, Pocho Lavezzi explains Zlatan's unhappy in Paris because fans jeer him. His ego can't take it.
This year Atlético was the only team that could - for some time - challenge Barsa. La Liga may be a one, two or three horse race, but claiming "Spanish football is only Real & Barsa" is obviously wrong. Spanish teams have won 23 trophies since 2000 (clubs & NT). Compare that to Italy (eight), big-spending England (seven) and much-lauded Germany (two). Spain produce great footballers while England buys them.
This is the image that he and his management cherishes. "Messi never dives" and things like that. The idea that he is a normal, even shy and humble, boy who behaves himself like everyone would do. On-pitch hints that point to the contrary are readily ignored. That said, unlike Xavi I've never seen him giving interviews where he wrongly takes the 'we do everything right' stance. He keeps it within limits. Ofc, everyone behaves sometimes at odds with their own principles but the very expressive nature makes that deviations are very noticeable. This are two related points. Messi and Ronaldo have been far ahead of everyone else, either because they are extremely good from an historical perspective or because the depth is not the same any more. Similarly, the depth of defenders is not the same either. They have less leeway too but somehow the members of the elite echelon are not the same. Either because the top echelon is freakishly good or because the depth has depleted. It is interesting that the same has happened at both the offensive and defensive ends. Which in turn relates to the previous observation that defensive legends like Scirea, Baresi and so on conceded goals (plural ! ) against Finnish, Scottish, Irish etc. teams. Maybe it is a reflection of the overall developments of the past two decades (i.e. the elite teams are now 6 times as rich as the #20 instead of 2 times).
Legends like Scirea, Baresi & Co conceded goals vs minnows because Italian teams were tactically 15-20 years behind. Italy had some great players but insisted on never dominating matches, always recoiling and giving away possession. Check the Milan team of the early 1980s: they had a future world champion like Collovati, future EC winners like Baresi, Evani and Tassotti and highly talented people like Francesco Romano (one of Napoli's best in the 86/87 scudetto season), Walter Novellino, Battistini and Joe Jordan. Still, they managed to score 21 goals and get relegated, simply because great players aren't enough: you also need an idea of what you want to do with the ball.
Funny you mention Michael Jordan. He fits my idea of greatness. He is a legend. He was an incredible competitor and a driver of the Bulls success. Here's what Jordan said when LeBron joined the Heat: "There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry [Bird], called up Magic [Johnson] and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team. But that's ... things are different. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys." Zidane was another player who I felt really lifted others around him. His stats aren't the best, but a good match I remember is France-Brazil from 2006 WC. You can't put your finger on how Zidane made the difference using numbers (he didn't score the winning goal), but he was incredible that match. He had a lot of epic performances in key moments, and his final at that WC vs. Italy was of course epic in a different way. But Zidane is a legend. Some of you don't like Zlatan. But look at his influence on PSG this season! I believe I read somewhere that he has had a hand in over 50% of their goals in the league. And he has dragged some teams to success that were never the same after he left.
Watch 19 year old Messi vs. Chelsea, didn't score or assist, but was easily the best player on the field, and man of the tie. Btw, Messi has directly hand in 62% of the goals in league this season, Zlatan 54%.
Jordan was a childhood hero of mine but his ego only falls short of Ali's. Wade and Bosh are in no way even close to Bird or Magic. Jordan's comparison is really beyond ridiculous. And I don't like him very much but Lebron certainly lifts up the rest of the players on his team. He already proved that by taking the crap Cavs to a final. Right now he's currently having one of the most dominant seasons I have probably ever seen. Also, the Bulls made it to the finals without Jordan when he quit to do his baseball shit. The rest of the Bulls weren't exactly scrubs. Zidane is overrated but that's another discussion. I liked Zlatan a lot but he really became a douche later on in Barca. Pep benched him and the team didn't suffer. They spanked Real in the clasico with Pep starting Bojan of all people. And he kept using Bojan and Pedro towards the end instad of Zlatan.I'm sure that hurt his ego.
You're right: stats are vital in individual sports, but not in football. In this sport, the most important is that you make your team win or at least increase its chances to win. In this, one thing most people - fans, managers, journalists - still seem to ignore is the body language. A player can - with his charisma, his fighting spirit, his enthusiasm, his social competence - make his environment better and more successful, even when he doesn't score goals or serves assists. Watch guys like Xavi & Iniesta: every move they make scream: WE'RE IN CONTROL. But a player can also have a toxic influence on his team, complaining with his team mates, looking depressed or frustrated. If he does, no stats in the world will make his a Truly Great Footballer.
I'm no professor in basketball but Jordan is #1 in PER (career), #14 offensive rating, #131 defensive rating, #4 offensive win shares, #21 defensive win shares, #4 win shares (three players above him are all centers). Most importantly, he is the career leader of win shares per 48 minutes at both regular season and play-offs. Pretty much tells that he let his team win. Regarding Zlatan vs Messi and the difference in background I was thinking of the analogy between Ali and Jordan in that aspect.
Zlatan grew up in the most comprehensive welfare State in history, Messi in a poor family in Rosario, son of factory steel worker and a part-time cleaner. Nature gave Zlatan an incredible physique, and awarded Lio with a growth hormone deficiency.
For me the perfect analogy The Greatest vs. The Best Schumacher - Senna (death) Gretzky - Lemieux (cancer) Jordan - Magic (aids) Pele - Messi (ghd)
I really don't know what point you're trying to make. Jordan is one of my childhood heros, like I said, and he's the best basket player ever. I simply mentioned that the Bulls did make a final without him. Which is fact. I'm not trying to discredit his influence not only in the Bulls but basketball overall. Though I think Larry Bird and Magic Johnson were the ones who saved basketball from the funk it was in. Regarding the comparison between Ali and Jordan I made; it was just based on egos The Zlatan vs, Messi thing I don't even know why it's being discussed since they are completely different players.
They're not: they are maybe the two most talented players of the game, they are forwards, they are contemporary, they play in big clubs, age difference is not that enormous. Yet one has won everything there is to win, time after time, while the other one is still waiting. There are lessons to be learned.
He's strict forward only on the paper and when the play is in own half, he plays long periods of time in multiple positions, pretty much every position from CM to a Striker. And I think he actually spends half the time in attacking half behind other three players. Hardly similar to a striker like Zlatan.
Fair enough, but that doesn't make him so much different from Zlatan that a comparison is irrelevant. Quite a few strikers nowadays play in the "hole", with more or less success. Zlatan is not a classic striker in the NT, for ex.
you again just BLINDED with Messi stats but not bother watching real games. While I agree compare Messi to Zlatan is a bit push .., Zlatan played most his early career as 2nd stirker/forward (Inter) only lately he became a main striker at Milan 2011 and then now at PSG When Messi played behind 3 players? WHO? HOW many games? The only time he played as AM was at WC2010 with Argentina PERIOD. He was a wide FW for 3 years with Barca and promoted to be a main striker in end 2009/early 2010. But he played more withdrawn AGREE. Hence called (FAULTLY) a false 9
yeah suffered BIG time: 1- by only scoring 2 goals after a looooong 25minutes played LOL 2- Possession was 68% (much less than 70% with messi) LOL