Mathis to RSL???

Discussion in 'Real Salt Lake' started by tabramos10, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ANS - Arena plays favorites

    I'm sure he'll be pulling down a big chunk of cap money and I'm not sure he'll be worth it any more (if he ever was). He is a name though and new teams need a few names, even if they're on the down side of their career. Clint has always had a following and many think he walks on water (I'm not one of those) and I have no reason to think this team will work out any better then any of the others he's been on.
     
  2. bsucio9

    bsucio9 Member

    Jul 24, 2003
    Twin Falls

    I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure Arena isn't too fond of Cleetus. He's has publicly criticized him and his work ethic many times. Bruce picks him because when he's on, he's amazing.
     
  3. usasoc

    usasoc New Member

    Aug 21, 2003
    why is it that anyone who was good in the past continues to get the accolades when they are not performing ??? this country does this constantly to has beens. they can do no wrong if they once were good
     
  4. southckid10

    southckid10 New Member

    Dec 6, 2003
    Connecticut
    no u cant read. I said the magazine didnt make enough money. I didnt single out anything like ads or such. I stated their were to many ads thats what i thought. I believe they went out only because they had too much competition, like soccer america which is jam-packed with things and soccer america wus more popular.soccer jr had good stuff just not alot of articles. The mags were like their sponsors and ads for food etc.
     
  5. Scottt1115

    Scottt1115 Member

    Sep 14, 2003
    SLC, UT
    Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it can't happen. Lemme spell it out for ya. It works pretty simply really. A magazine sells tons of ads making a huge profit....at first. When its subscribers get pissed because there is no content to the magazine, just wall to wall ads, they cancel their subscriptions. In turn, advertisers see no subscriber base and stop doing business with the magazine as there is no one to read their ads. Pretty easy to "stick with" in my opinion.

    However I am not saying that is the case with this particular magazine as I have never seen it. I just like to be contrary.
     
  6. southckid10

    southckid10 New Member

    Dec 6, 2003
    Connecticut
    thank you scott. I wasnt saying how the mag went out becuase of ads but rather their wasnt enough content. you totally proved bsucio9 wrong

    lol

    -Marco
     
  7. Deuce

    Deuce Member

    Nov 16, 2004
    Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    You may have proven someone wrong! good for you! I am sure you will sleep better now!

    BUT the fact remains that your ascertion that Clint Mathis has never really been any good and that he basically sucked still leaves one to think that maybe that magazine went out of business because it published rubbish that was contrary to what it's readers wanted to read!
     
  8. Czar Pazzo

    Czar Pazzo Member

    Jul 25, 2003
    The Darjeeling Ltd
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    [​IMG]
    Apparently you didn't see this one where he scored 5 goals in an away game. Pretty mediocre.

    Soccer Jr. huh? So who did they think was good? Wait lemme guess... Ronaldo.

    Or maybe they went the Heather Mitts route. Either way, don't believe everything you read, and don't believe anything you read in "Soccer Jr."
     
  9. Czar Pazzo

    Czar Pazzo Member

    Jul 25, 2003
    The Darjeeling Ltd
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    sorry to do this to a fellow Roma fan. but...

    no, u cant rite.

    Everyone makes mistakes here and there but your posts are barely legible. Have you ever heard of the apostrophe? their? wus? their?

    Now I see why you read "Soccer Jr."
     
  10. bsucio9

    bsucio9 Member

    Jul 24, 2003
    Twin Falls

    Not to get into semantics, but I'm pretty sure I can read. You said they didn't make enough money, not because of content, but because of too many ads. Then when someone questioned you on it, you said it was because of too much competion. Whatever, the fact of the matter is Mathis to RSL is a good thing in my opinion.

    Oh yeah, and Scotttttttt, I appreciate you lecture in basic magazine economics, however in this case, he was saying the the content was good, which should have kept the subscribers coming back for more. So either the content sucked, or as he said later, there was too much competition for them.

    Again, not the point. I'm sorry to take this so far off track. I'll say it again. I'll welcome Mathis with open arms to RSL.
     
  11. aosthed

    aosthed Member

    Jul 16, 2004
    40º30' N 111º52' W
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Wasn't Bsucio9's point, that if a person's credibility stems from a magazine that failed maybe that person shouldn't be using that as a basis for his point/credibility?
     
  12. Deuce

    Deuce Member

    Nov 16, 2004
    Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Don't know but that was certainly my point!
     
  13. blitzzfan

    blitzzfan Member

    Jul 25, 2000
    St. George, UT
    We got Soccer Jr. in our house for a while. Like most kids mags, it was written for non-decision makers. It seemed that about 10 or 11 years old and you were past the content of Soccer Jr. Maybe that's why they fizzled.

    As for Mathis, I can hardly wait to turn to one of you Loyalists and scream,
    THAT'S WHY HE'S HERE!!!THAT'S WHY HE'S HERE!!!
     
  14. SofaKingCool

    SofaKingCool New Member

    Jul 13, 2004
  15. prk166

    prk166 BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 8, 2000
    Med City
    Good to see RSL picking up Mathis. Between him and Kries, they should be able to do some damage.
     
  16. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, the SL Trib article mentions that RSL will have a Press Conference tomorrow (Jan. 6) in SLC. Not sure when and where (I will post it when I learn it) but 1 guess on the what's of the Press Conference. :)

    Since the Trib says Clint Mathis is in town this week, I assume he will be at the Press Conference.
     
  17. Liverpool_SC

    Liverpool_SC Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    Upstate, SC
    Fixed your post.

    Besides. I cannot imagine how RSL is going to be able to get anything done defensively if they rely on a front line of Clint Mathis, Jason Kreis and Andy Williams.

    1) None of these guys are solid holding players.
    2) None of these guys are particular fast (defenses will be able to push way up and trap them high because they won't have to worry about the counterattack).
    3) None of these guys are going to be able to keep much pressure on the opponent's defenders (when they are on the ball), due to inclination (Williams) and declining physical skills (Mathis and Kreis). That makes it likely that RSL will have to rely on very defensive-minded players at some of their other positions. That might be okay for awhile, but it doesn't bode well for linking play and service to the forwards.

    I hope for your sake that RSL can find a blazing wide midfielder or backup forward who can stretch the defense a bit. There is a reason why Andy Williams is more effective as a complementary playmaker (and that often in a wide position) rather than as a primary playmaker. And there is a reason why the goal spigot dried up for Kreis after his early flurry last season.

    I think that a player like Jamil Walker would have been a great partner for either Kreis or Mathis. Maybe Selolwone (sp?) will be able to do this job.
     
  18. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gee, I am sure prk166 appreciates you rewriting his post. How kind of you to lower yourself to help the little people.
    I mean come on, thats pretty untactful even for BS.
    RSL does have a good back line, anchored by Rusty Pierce. I agree that RSL needs a better d-mid (which I think they can fix in next week's draft). And I think Andy W. is supposed to be a playmaker up top, what else would he be here for? Jamil Walker has never had a year like either Kreis or Mathis. In fact, Kreis had a better year (at ~32) last year at the Burn then Walker had at SJ (at ~22).
     
  19. stucknutah

    stucknutah Member+

    Feb 14, 2002
    In the Office
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Prime...don't be defensive...prk166 has many good points. With these frontrunners (Dipsy does not have scary speed either), everyone will play us high and put tremendous pressure on our midfield. To be successful, we will need a d-mid who is very confortable with the ball, at least one outside mid who can fly (i.e. Beasley), the other outside mid with outstanding skill in tight quarters, and a team that can play possession under pressure, even in the back.
    I don't see anything other than average skill in the back, we do not have the d-mid yet (Ara supporters: can he do this?) however, maybe the Senior from Indiana can fill the role, and I'm not sure we have the outside mids either. Long story short...if we can play a possession oriented, short passing game under pressure, then we can get Kreis, Mathis and Williams the ball in the final third where all three can be dangerous enough to either score or be fouled (with Kreis and Mathis, you have to figure on 5 goals this year on free-kicks outside the area). If not, we will look like the Crapids last year, without a great keeper.
    As an additional bonus, if we can play this style, we will keep our latin fans happy, as they tend to not like Dallas style long-ball.
    With 13 players to go and foreign-player roster spots still open, I have hope our brain-trust will be able to fill in our gaps.
     
  20. Liverpool_SC

    Liverpool_SC Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    Upstate, SC
    You need to get around these boards more than. "Fixed your post" is a common joke-type thing.

    A back line is composed of four players - who else are you relying on besides Rusty Pierce?

    Plus - I said that your linking play would suffer because you would have to have more defensive-minded players in key positions to make up for a lack of team defense from Kreis, Mathis, Williams, etc. That is different from not having a good back line.

    Also - have you noticed Rusty Pierce's injury history? He rarely makes it through a season without missing key games. Especially the last couple of seasons.

    I know that is where he is going to be played. And he has never played well enough as the Main Playmaker to be retained by any team during his long MLS career. He is a fabulous player in his own way. But when the spotlight (and especially physical midfielders and defenders) is on him, he often crawls into a hole and curls up into a ball. That is why he nominally played out wide for Chicago. He is a great attacking player. But he suffers if he is overexposed on the ball. And he is not much of a two-way player.

    In fact, I would not be surprised if later in the season - Williams gives way to Mathis in the attacking midfield role. At least for extended periods of time. If Mathis does not get much service at forward, he basically withdraws and plays like an attacking midfielder anyway.

    If Kreis stayed at one of the weakest clubs in MLS last season - he was going to be asked to play right back. He simply did not have the engine to play forward in the Dallas system.

    Jamil Walker was buried behind a healthy Brian Ching, Landon Donovan and DeWayne Derosario. The season before, he was able to play a lot more because of injuries. In that time, he demonstrated a lot of physical potential and scored some nice goals.

    It is important to factor in playing time when you consider goal totals. Jason Kreis and Clint Mathis have never had particularly high scoring rates. Even though they have scored a lot of goals in MLS - it is primarily because they have played lots of minutes. Now that they are declining physically (Mathis is a bit of a mystery in this regard. But he sure looks like he is declining), it is going to be hard to justify the amount of playing time that they are accustomed to in the years when they scored lots of goals.

    No team is smart to rely on older players who are no longer in their playing prime as goalscorers. Jamil Walker is a bit of a project, to be sure. But he has complementary skills that mesh well with the skills that Mathis and Kreis possess. Selolwane is a similar player, only he is much smaller than Walker and has not scored freely when he has gotten playing time.

    Note Now I see that RSL have Erick Scott on the roster as well. Perhaps they are hoping that he will be a good foil for Kreis or Mathis up front. He is a solid prospect in the mold of Walker. I do wonder why RSL don't have at least one forward who is good in the air or good at holding the ball. They are going to really struggle to score off of free kicks and corners, though Kreis and Mathis are at least good at volleying the ball (off corners) and taking free kicks. Kreis is pretty decent in the box.
     
  21. Liverpool_SC

    Liverpool_SC Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    Upstate, SC
    I agree with your analysis. But this type of quick-passing, possession-oriented team is not easy to build from scratch or with younger players who are going to be (at least initially) overwhelmed by the pace of play. Based on your current personnel, Ellinger would be wise to spend MANY of his marbles securing a very solid defensive/holding midfielder. A guy in the mold of Chris Armas or perhaps a slightly more refined Simo Valakari. He is going to have huge defensive responsibilities and will need to be good at distributing the ball and working to provide an outlet for the defense.

    The next priority after that is indeed a fantastic wide midfielder - preferably one who can switch wings comfortably and unbalance a defense that way.

    Because no matter how solid a backline Rusty Pierce, Jeff Stewart, Nelson Akwari, Evan Whitfield, et al constitute - they are not going to be supporting players one can rely on to mesh well with a neat, quick passing, possession system.

    And to answer your question about Ara - I think that he will be a useful player for RSL - but I don't think he is ready or able to start in such a key position at this point in time. He is still a bit slow in reading the game and he struggles to "see" passes vertically on the field. The best holding midfielders don't try to force passes upfield - but they have to be able to see those plays develop and deliver the ball instantly to establish linking play. Especially in a possession-oriented team that does not serve the ball directly and rely on the athleticism of its forwards.
     
  22. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Liverpool, when is your book going to be published? How in the world can you write so much...truly amazing. Really.
    But back to subject, all of this talk of RSL missing this and that is a little premature. They have 14/15 players out of 28. I mean can't you wait to tell us the RSL sucks until after they have all of their players or maybe even after their first match?
     
  23. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They say yes.
    That woudl be Danny O'Rourke, he is my pick for RSL first round
     
  24. Deuce

    Deuce Member

    Nov 16, 2004
    Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    OK So who is going to attend the Press Conference tomorrow?
    I am going to be there!
    Any one else?
     
  25. Czar Pazzo

    Czar Pazzo Member

    Jul 25, 2003
    The Darjeeling Ltd
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    I can't go because of school, it's one of my major classes so it can't be missed. For those of you who never found out, the press conference will be at the Hard Rock.

    If I remember correctly.
     

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