Match 6 - IRL : CRO - KUIPERS (NED)

Discussion in 'Euro 2012: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, in fairness, if it did deflect off a Croatian, that would count for offside. Remember it's "played or touched" by the attack. A deflection is a "touch." But I didn't see the deflection that he's referring to at all. And then the Irish defender plays the ball anyway--just extremely poorly--so things would be reset there regardless.

    Unless puyol saw something that we didn't see...
     
  2. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Deflection does not equal control.
     
  3. SimpleGame6

    SimpleGame6 Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Club:
    Aberdeen FC
    Look at Massrefs post. You don't need to control it. If I kick it into a Croat player and it goes to another Croat player in an offside position, he's offside. It just has to touch him.
     
  4. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    IF it touched a Croatian player it should have been offside. But I haven't seen a replay yet where I could see the touch.
     
  5. puyol

    puyol Member+

    FC Barcelona
    Dec 24, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    exactly , i thought i was the only one thinking that , but its a clear offside coz it came off a croation player
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    puyol, which player do you think deflected the ball? I'm not seeing it from the angles they show, but I guess it's possible that last player in the center of the field got hit by the ball as it went backward from the Irish defender. But I haven't seen anything that shows a touch.
     
  7. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah - corrected I am - fair points all. Must have been the shandy(ies) I was drinking earlier while watching Spain v Italy.

    thx for corrections.
     
  8. SimpleGame6

    SimpleGame6 Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Club:
    Aberdeen FC
    I just watched the replay again...I don't see what you're seeing. I only see a bad clearance no deflection, no change of direction by the ball.
     
  9. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He botched the clearance. Never touched a Croatian after that.
     
  10. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At least Alexi and Kasey kinda know why it wasn't offside.

    PS: I HATE the who "phases" thing try to use to explain offside.
     
  11. puyol

    puyol Member+

    FC Barcelona
    Dec 24, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    thats what i saw from the replay , the irish defender miss-hit it but it still hit the croation player ( #8 ) , and went to the # 9 to score
     
  12. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Kasey Keller did a better job than Alexi Lalas of explaining (in simpler terms) why the second Croatian goal was not offside.

    I am not sure that the foul that led to the Ireland goal was even a foul. I see an arm by Corluka and the Ireland player goes flying (somewhat similar I thought to the foul called just outside the penalty area).
     
  13. PeanutFlush

    PeanutFlush Member

    Jul 8, 2009
    NoVa
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I went back and watched it in slow motion from all of the replays. It never hit #8 for Croatia. Straight from the defender's foot to #9.
     
  14. SimpleGame6

    SimpleGame6 Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Club:
    Aberdeen FC
    It's a foul, he even decided to do it again. You cannot challenge a player from behind, they can't see you coming they can't prepare for it. Shoulder to shoulder fine but when you see their back you should contain and that's it.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another good yellow.

    Kuipers is understated, but I like how he operates and I like his foul selection and misconduct application.
     
  16. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looked a pen...
     
  17. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed - call should have come from AR or AAR.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmm. I wonder if not giving that has more to do with having the wrong angle or not wanting to give a borderline penalty whilst Croatia was pissed about the injury situation. Also wonder if that's something an AAR could--or would--help with from behind. Strong, strong case for a penalty.
     
  19. o5iiawah

    o5iiawah Member

    Oct 31, 2008
    Looks like CRO got away with one there. the AAR should have had a perfect view. The CRO defender didn't get a lick of the ball.
     
  20. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Massref - Did they recently change the language to include "touched" in addition to "played" in the deflection offside law? I remember not three years ago being told at a clinic that a "touch" from the attacking player doesn't count.
     
  21. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thats just incorrect. Anytime the attacking player touches the ball you need to determine offside position and offenses.
     
  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No. No recent change there.
     
  23. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Huh, I wish I remember exactly who told me that.
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To reinforce how clear this is, the Laws cite "when the ball touches or is played by one of his team..." It's interesting that Law XI cites what the ball does, rather than what the player does, in regard to touching. It's as if the IFAB is making sure everyone knows that it does not matter if the attacker intended to touch the ball or not. This could not be clearer.
     
  25. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

    May 16, 2011
    Tampa
    Well, I could see that thought going through MY head if I were CR, but can he really think that way?

    100% foul, not sure on the position of it....
     

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