Match #48, 2018 World Cup: Colombia vs. Senegal - 6/28/18

Teh point being that a foot to the chest is NOT no card in anyone's book. So, you're feeling it's being unfair to teams that kick people in the chest?

And even if yellow cards are totally random, and not related to professional or reckless fouls, then it's just a coin flip.....which is what you wanted to have decide the match anyway.

Cards have a stronger relationship to something related to play than a coin flip and are therefore a better tie breaker

 

Except that it clearly WASN'T do or die, as they didn't do and advanced anyway

 

The notion that yellow cards and red cards aren't sanctions tied to actions in a match is so ridiculous it doesn't even merit discussion

 

I'm saying that the criticisms are bunk. It's the classic "if there's even a small flaw, it must be thrown out." That's a classic fallacy, and, well, is bunk.

is it perfect? no. is it vastly better than a coin flip? Absolutely.

 

It gives the appearance of fairness when in reality it’s arbitrary (excuse the pun) to the referee calling the match.

 

Lol, the goalie jumps into the goal in the Mina header. Someone should tell him even if he had caught the ball, it’s already a goal.

By the way, it should have been a penalty for Senegal.

 

I actually prefer fair play points to a coin flip, not just because the former has a greater relationship to merit but also because teams can adopt their tactics knowing the tie-breaker before hand. In fact, the gripes about the tie-breaker rule here forgets that all the teams knew the result they would need based on the rules.

For me, the tie-breakers should in all cases be known before a match and no team should exit a tournament on a coin flip. For that reason, I would do away with the coin flip altogether as a tie-breaker. Even if the fair play points are equal, the next tie-breaker to me should be something else (e.g., most corners awarded, least number of goals scored from the penalty spot, most shots on goal, etc). In fact, I would bump the most shots on goal and least number of goals from the penalty spot ahead of the fair play points.

 

Sure, but it still has a strong correlation to fouling and bad play. Your contention that there's no correlation is laughable.

And so, basically you want to reward thuggish play.

 

Yellow cards aren't given out at random. There's always a serious infraction of the rules involved. Yes, sometimes serious infractions will land you with more yellows than other times, but the more you go in studs up, engage in professional fouls, the more you dive, the more you hack down skilled players, the more yellows your team is going to get.

Don't want to lose the tie break? Then stop doing those things. There's a solid reason Japan won the tie break.

 

Maybe they should be thinking about it and make an effort to not get yellow and red cards, then. I've got zero pity for teams that lose out because they've been hacking people down.

 

No. Good no call. The Laws expressly call out that if the attacker trips over the defender after a clean tackle, that's not tripping

 

All are serious infractions. Frankly, only an idiot gets cards for any of those. Want to advance, then grow up and act like a professional. I have no problem woth penalizing stupidity. You want to reward all that? Awesome

 

Fair play becomes double punishment then, already conditioning a player during the actual match and then deciding a tiebreaker. And not all yellows are given consistently, which is the biggest issue as not every ref applies the same threshold for what is a flagrant foul.

Not all dissent is stupidity, big teams often get away with more than less traditional ones and it becomes frustrating, to the fans and to the players.

Also no one is talking about rewarding anything, just that a yellow card should matter to its place in the game, no less and definitely no more than that.

 

So? Why should teams that foul worse advance over teams that don't? Prove that up.

 

Morocco unlucky? Seems like you're being harsh on Senegal here.

Senegal scored 4 goals and outplayed their opponents in all three group matches.

I thought Morocco was hard done as well, but @ the end of the day, Morocco didn't score a freaking goal till Matchday 3. Senegal put 4 in before Matchday 3.

My reading on it was this:

Japan: Outplayed by Colombia despite being up a man in first half. Actually give up an equalizer, and win on a late goal after Colombia's exhausted. Outplayed by Senegal but pull off an equalizer late (like a touch before the 80th minute) and hold on for the draw. Outplayed by and lose to Poland.

Colombia: Outplay Japan while down a man due to an incredibly idiotic hand ball, but lose late after basically exhausting themselves chasing the game while down a man. Thrash Poland. Outplayed by Senegal, but score on a corner in the final 15 minutes to win.

Senegal: Outplay and beat Poland. Outplay and tie Japan. Outplay and lose to Colombia.

For me Senegal going out in this group was almost certainly the most brutal ousting in a group phase I've ever seen. Just absolutely brutal.

Am super pissed, as a Senegal-England or Senegal Belgium game is about a billion times more appetizing than Japan vs England or Japan vs Belgium.

Alas, CAF, it happens, again, and again, and again. So frustrating. CAF never sends close to its best five squads, and they never generate an actual positive campaign. Flat out never. No idea when this is gonna change. Maybe decades from now. To be fair to the region, I thought the best sides were pretty clearly 1. Senegal 2. Morocco 3. Nigeria, and those 3 teams probably landed in 3 of the four deepest groups. I think if any of them land in Group A, instead of Egypt, they advance. I think if any of them landed in Group E, possibly F, and possibly B (other than Morocco) they also advance. So some of it was bad luck, but after several decades of the same crappy results, you get the aunt and the balls and the uncle line. It has been literally an additional 7 cups, after all, since Cameroon made its splash 28 years ago.

Any idea on whom the most likely top 5 would be in '22? I decided to look through recent U-20 and Cup of Nations tournaments to see which international sides in CAF seem to be on an uptick, and I'll grant, I don't know squat about the region, I don't even get Bein to watch the games, but I do keep an eye on the region because I always love the passion with which many of the Sub-Saharan sides play, and the obvious joie de vivre they bring to it, so just taking a peak, it seems like for 2022 we may have:

Some of the Usual suspects (on an uptick, or maintaining):
Cameroon
Nigeria
Ghana (maybe)
Tunisia
Morocco

Some on the rise:
Senegal
Mali
Zambia
Burkina Faso
D.R. Congo


The youth tournament, Cup of Nations, and World Cup Qualifying supporting evidence:

Their last U-20 qualifiers:
Ghana
2013: 3rd Place
2015: Round of 16
2017: Did Not Qualify

Senegal:
2015: 4th Place
2017: Round of 16

Nigeria:
2013: Round of 16
2015: Round of 16
2017: Did Not Qualify

Mali
2013: Group Stage Exit
2015: 4th Place
2017: Did Not Qualify

Zambia:
2017: Quarterfinals

Guinea:
2017: Group Stage Exit

South Africa:
2017 Group Stage Exit

Egypt:
2013: Group Stage Exit:

CAF WC Qualifying Losing Sides in the Final Round:


Africa Cup of Nations Most Recent Results:

2017:

Winner: Cameroon

Runner Up: Egypt

Third Place: Burkina Faso

Fourth Place: Ghana

Quarterfinalist Losing Sides:
Senegal: (on PK's to Cameroon)
D.R. Congo: (1-2 vs Ghana)
Morocco (0-1 vs Egypt)
Tunisia (0-2 vs Burkina Faso

Tunisia:

2015:
Winner: Ivory Coast

Runner Up: Ghana

Third Place: D.R. Congo

Fourth Place: Equatorial Guinea (Host)

Quarterfinalist Losing Sides:
Congo (2-4 vs D.R. Congo)
Tunisia (1-2 AET vs Equatorial Guinea)
Algeria (1-3 vs Ivory Coast)
Guinea (0-3 vs Ghana)

 

You're hard to take seriously because you sound full of shit. Japan's style is not to be flashy. They only appear to get outplayed by senegal to inexperienced eyes. Their team actually specifically trains for extreme endurance.

 

CAF should implement five groups of ten, like Conmebol, except only the number one advances.

 

Kinda the same problem CAF has now. You still rely on FIFA rankings and you end up with a cupcake group and a group of death which is how we get a Tunisia or Egypt in the WC.