Match 38: WAL : DEN - SIEBERT (GER)

Discussion in 'Euro 2020: Refereeing' started by code1390, Jun 25, 2021.

  1. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Match #38
    Wales : Denmark
    Saturday, 26 June 2021
    18:00 local time (12:00 EDT)
    Amsterdam

    Referee: Daniel Siebert (GER)
    AR1: Jan Seidel (GER)
    AR2: Rafael Foltyn (GER)
    Fourth Official: Ovidiu Haţegan (ROU)

    Video Assistant Referee: Bastian Dankert (GER)
    AVAR 1: Christian Dingert (GER)
    AVAR 2: Christian Gittelmann (GER)
    AVAR 3: Marco Fritz (GER)
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A replay at 12’ just suggested VAR might have missed a clear handball a minute or two earlier. But no one said anything—on field or in commentary. Anyone else see that?
     
    Pittsburgh Ref repped this.
  3. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I saw the replay, though missed where the original incident occurred. Obviously worth at least a check.
     
  4. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Deep in the heart of the PA
     
  5. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Rewinding it was at about the 10:30 mark. Not much of a reaction from Wales. Replay shown at about 11:45.
     
  6. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Not ref-related other than the signal for the restart but that goal was a beaut.
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    So do video officials run the same gantlet as CRs, in terms of today's match impacting tomorrow's assignment...or otherwise?
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. It’s probably worth discussing in the larger assignment thread but Rosetti implied yesterday there were three missed OFRs in the first round. It appears one of those VARs then only worked as an AVAR and the others, if we can properly guess the missed interventions, have not yet been assigned as VAR this round.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course, you can’t scuttle every VAR over one missed intervention. For obvious reasons.
     
  11. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not watching the game at the moment. But was there no reaction from the attacking team?
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    None. I’m definitely open to the possibility this one angle is an optical illusion. Need another angle at the right time.
     
  13. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    I mean yeah, on field or off, it's a good thing the officials don't make as many mistakes as the players!
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you slow it down frame by frame, maybe it hits Bale’s abdomen and not the arm of the defender?
     
  15. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    *squints*

    Doesn't that deflect off of Wales #11? And then I'm not sure if that hits the extended arm afterwards or not...
     
    JasonMa and MassachusettsRef repped this.
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. Took me a second but I think that’s possible and, well, probably likely given the lack of intervention.
     
    JasonMa and ManiacalClown repped this.
  17. Ghastly Officiating

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017
    For what it’s worth, a soccer app is saying Bale blocked his own teams shot twice around that same time.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lot going on with Denmark's second goal.
     
  19. The411

    The411 Member

    Oct 12, 2013
    Well, this referee is done for the tourney.
     
  20. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm questioning what the APP was there. Does it reset in that botched clearance? That was more than a block or deflection.
     
  21. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FWIW, I think it was a missed foul, but I do believe the ball stayed in play.
     
  22. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Do you think they went all the way back to the potential foul in the review? Or as Clatts said, there were 5 passages of play. Boy, that’s a foul.
     
  23. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Film at 11 (or at least audio)
     
  24. The411

    The411 Member

    Oct 12, 2013
    I don’t believe they can go back that far.
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, there's language that addresses this that I don't have off the top of my head. Will try to find. But the big question is whether or not the alleged foul could be checked relative to that clearance.

    The fact that there was a check at all indicates the VAR team did not feel the APP had reset. Because if the APP had reset you can't even check the boundary decision. And if the boundary decision was checked, then it's really hard to say the alleged foul couldn't be.

    Ultimately, I think it's more a foul than it's not and it's usually called, but the bar for APP VAR fouls in UEFA (and Germany, for that matter) has been quite high, just like it was at WC18. Not surprised at all there was no review. Whether or not there should have been is more of a philosophical one than a practical one here, I think.
     

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