Match 24 | Australia vs Ghana | 19.06.10 | Pre/During/Post Match Discussion [R]

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

If you watch the replay he is actually trying to get his chest in front of the ball and move his arm in close/ away from the ball. his hand never went close to being above the waist and his arm was never what you would call outstretched.

There is no way it was deliberate.

That being said, I would be pretty pissed if I was from Ghana and it wasn't a penalty. IMO there needs to be discretion allowed so that a penalty can be awarded, but if not deliberate then no red card. Until FIFA change the rule/ wording of the rule though there will always be controversy.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

Sure, most football fans know this, but I thought the point was to come up with some concrete reasons why this should and shouldn't have been given. Do referees have an different definition of deliberate from anyone else then? And is this written down somewhere, or up to interpretation by each ref? In which case one would hope they would use common sense.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

What this boils down to is that Kewell's arm PREVENTED a sure goal for Ghana. He should have kept his hands to himself (i.e. behind his back). He didn't hence the ref had to call the penalty. You can ask whether the red was harsh or not, but it was a clear DOGSO and the ref had no choice.

This call isn't even in the slightest controversial. If you want to hate on anyone hate on the rulebook.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

Obviously, you didn't follow the discussions at all.

The rule book says:
1) Only if it's deliberate is it a foul.
2) If a foul prevents a goal, it's a red card.


So it's either a foul, in that case it also has to be a red, or if it's not deliberate, it's neither, regardless of whether it prevented a goal or not.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

Arm away from body = deliberate. End of story. There was only one call that the referee could make and he made the right one.

There is a reason why defenders hold their arms behind their backs when defending a corner and protecting the posts.

Go to the referee thread if you don't believe me.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

So your interpretation of deliberate contact is that he failed to move his arm away in time? Of course we would need to know if he had enough time to react.

I agree that the rule is rubbish, but mostly as it assumes that a ref can determine if an action is deliberate or not (which he can't, unless he can read minds). It would have been much better to specify the effective criteria like "hand to ball" etc explicitly.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

No. The arm should have never been extended in the first place. The place of the arm is behind his back or on his crotch. Not out wide as to make himself as big as possible.

Having the arm away from the body is DELIBERATE. Hence any ball that hits the arm causes a DELIBERATE HANDBALL.

Wow... unbelievable people are still trying to debate one of the most obvious calls in World Cup history.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

You are underestimating what is deemed deliberate. Your hands should be by your sides or behind your back. Anything above your waist is a red card, or moving your hand towards the ball.

A handball call is by definition "deliberate" and if you stop a ball going into the net it's a instant red card in 99% of cases.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

The arm wasn't swinging somewhere up in the air, but in a very natural position, close to his body, and it wasn't moving towards the ball.

No PK in my book.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

It stopped the ball going into the net! How is that a natural position.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

I know that in most cases it's a PK+red card. But I actually think that the rules don't support that.

I think the rules should actually be changed: If a clear goal is prevented but obviously not deliberately, it should be a PK without any card.

But as the rules are now, it's neither in this case.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

The arm was pointing down, that's a natural position for a field player's arm.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

Watch it again his arm is out stretched, blocking the goal.

If it was by his side it would have hit his body too.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

I also thought his arm was next to his body. We need some pictures here.

More importantly, there doesn't seem to be an agreement about what deliberate really means. Clearly, referees don't use the common English definition for it. And there is also some disagreement in the refereeing thread. I felt that many people thought the rules made the referee make this call (against common sense), although when you read the rules it's really the interpretation of the rules which is to blame. I am surprised that the referees are happy to work with this mess.

In the end of the day, these debated decisions make the game more interesting (although less fair) so I can live with them.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

In my opinion it was a penalty, because his arm stopped the ball from going in and altered its trajectory. It wasnt however a deliberate handball like for example Vidic or Lukovic against Germany and Ghana. Vidic should have gotten red. In this case a yellow would have sufficed.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

All handballs are by definition called deliberate. So it's a red card.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

Read the thread.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

I don't really care if it's a red card offence or not. Fact is Ghana were denied a goal thanks to a HANDBALL. There is no going around it - Ghana deserved the goal. Whether or not Kewell should have been sent off is secondary. When push comes to shove Ghana deserved to score and so they did.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

Never mind. Let's hope for a good game (without controversial refereeing) when Ghana meet Germany!

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

I think Australia would have won that match if they didn't receive a red card

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

Well the score would have been 1-1 deservedly. Whether Australia would have scored a winner we will never know.

 

Re: 19 June 2010 Australia vs Ghana Pre/During/Post Match Discussion

I am absolutely livid this morning. Australia has been robbed yet again. 3 matches in a row at the world cup and every decision goes against Australia. Even the Croatia game at the last world cup the Croatian had to receive 3 yellow cards to get a red as well as Viduka being tackled in the penalty box and no call. Not forgetting the dodgy goal Japan scored against Australia in the first game of the 06 World Cup as well where the Japan player ran straight into Schwarzer jumping for the ball and no call.

I AM CONVINCED FIFA HATES AUSTRALIA AND DOESN'T WANT THEM TO DO WELL THIS IS ********ING BULLSHIT ******** YOU BLATTER YOU PIECE OF ********ING SHIT