Match #19 - 18 June 2014 - 3:00 EDT - Rio De Janiero Officials Referee: Mark W GEIGER USA Assistant Referee 1: Mark Sean HURD (USA) Assistant Referee 2: Joe FLETCHER (CAN) Fourth official: Nawaf SHUKRALLA (BHR) This thread is for all pre-match, play-by-play and post-match discussion and analysis of the refereeing team. Per the forum guidelines (http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/welcome-forum-guidelines.2003380/), this thread will be heavily moderated. For more general or partisan discussions of the match, please go to the general Group thread or the individual team forums.
And Chile isnt likely to roll over and die to make it easy on them. This will be knockout round intensity in terms of the tournament stakes and quality of both teams.
This will be a major match in his international career. If he performs well, he will have a tremendous next four/five years with a probable selection to the WC Finals in Russia. If it goes poorly, this will likely be the end of the run for him and sadly will also reflect poorly on American refereeing as a whole making future FIFA appointments more difficult to obtain for those following him. I think that there is a great deal at stake for USA referees tomorrow.
Most likely Spain would be eliminated even with a draw in this match. If the Dutch beat Australia, they would have six points. Chile would have four and be playing the Netherlands in the final group match. Spain would only have a single point entering the last game. In order to advance, Spain would need Chile to lose to the Netherlands and would have to crush Australia themselves in order to make up their current poor goal differential.
Yes. Maybe, but anything can happen. In the past decade alone, many observers have thought guys like Shield and Michel were destined to referee a WC Final, only for their careers to end early, of their own choosing. Most thought Skomina and Kassai were absolute locks for this WC, only for their ARs to let them down in qualifying. And I would suggest most didn't expect to see Webb at this tournament after the last WC Final. At this point, he's already probable for Russia simply because he's the top American, will have one tournament under his belt, and is age-eligible. But so much changes--on and off the field--over four years. Nothing is guaranteed and I don't think a good performance today makes anything more likely by itself... particularly because a good performance today means at least one more high profile match, which will be remembered in a few years (and a few days) far more than this one will be (do we remember all of Webb's good games from 2010, or the WC Final?). Conversely, he could have a wonderful performance here and then do poorly in WCQ in 2017, so nothing in this tournament guarantees an appearance at the next one. Any bad game could be the end of any FIFA referee. If he pulls a Coulibably, sure. But to say a poor performance is the end of him would be a gross exaggeration. Irmatov has come back from an awful Olympics and a terrible mistake at Confed Cup. Cakir has come back from the Nani red card (although most informed observers would say there was nothing, technically, to come back from). Webb has come back from the WC Final. There are countless other examples. A bad performance might end his World Cup. But you have to put up a world-class choke job to end your career in just one match. Knowing Geiger, I don't think anyone here seriously expects that as even a remote possibility. For you, RedStar91 and the British tabloids (which have slammed Swedish, Slovenian and Turkish refereeing in the past several years, based on the single performance of a single referee), probably. I think everyone else will treat this as one game. He's making all of us proud just by getting the appointment. We all hope he does well. But it's one referee in one particular game. Geiger's performances over the past 3 years already have shown how good he is and have done wonders for American officiating. Just as Baharmast's and Hall's performances didn't help Stott or Marrufo, Geiger's performances will likely have little to no effect on whomever follows him (worth nothing that if Geiger goes to WC18, that mystery person probably isn't even on the FIFA list yet and might not even be in MLS yet). Merit is the word of the day (or current era) in international refereeing. France and Uruguay, two refereeing powerhouses historically, didn't get an official at this World Cup. Past performances by Rosetti or Poll or other top names did not hurt countrymates following them. Given our regional power, we will always have a WC candidate. Geiger's performance today isn't going to make selection of that one individual candidate any more or less likely in 2022 or 2026; people will be talking about that person's matches when it comes time. Do you think Kevin Stott's performances in 2005 played a role in Geiger's selection to this World Cup? I think there's a great opportunity for Geiger, Hurd and Fletcher. And USSF and CSA referees will be rightly proud if they perform as expected. But, though there's a risk in any high-profile game, to say there's anything "at stake" for me, you, or the other 150,000 American referees seems like a way of tying everyone into Geiger and putting additional pressure on him when we've got to remember how much of an individual accomplishment this is for the three officials involved. The team has undoubtedly had great mentors and support and instruction along the way. And I know they are all thankful for the people who have helped them get where they are now. But this is still an individual achievement for each of them (or a team achievement for the three of them, more correctly). Also, all of these assertions and this discussion completely ignore the role that Esse Baharmast currently plays in FIFA and the role he could be playing at the next World Cup. To some unknown and currently indeterminable extent, that's going to matter. Anyway, I hope everyone can just watch the team, enjoy the match, and be happy for the three of them. This is about Mark, Sean and Joe. This isn't really about any of us.
So what role does Esse play in FIFA at this time? As I understand it, he's still an instructor - is he at this tournament in this capacity? I know Vinnie Mauro has been a referee inspector at previous World Cup tournaments. Is he in Brazil in this role or does he play any other role at FIFA? I didn't think Hall played a role for FIFA, apart from his indirect role with CONCACAF. Also, has Socha played a role with FIFA in the last few tournaments? I know he hasn't had worked with USSF for various reasons... Didn't know if anyone else had details?
What? I can't reference your name?! Geez. http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/mls-pro-lockout-of-psra.2000587/page-27#post-29725758 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/mls-pro-lockout-of-psra.2000587/page-14#post-29699496 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/mls-pro-lockout-of-psra.2000587/page-2#post-29564089 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/march-2014-ifab-agm-agenda.2000503/page-2#post-29557283 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...ents-discussion.1996120/page-10#post-29040761 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/2013-usoc-assignments-rs.1987340/page-6#post-28782741 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...d-discussion-rs.1981709/page-14#post-27529703 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...nd-discussion-rs.1981709/page-8#post-27444136 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...nd-discussion-rs.1981709/page-7#post-27443530 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...d-discussion-rs.1879204/page-44#post-26074950 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/henry-corner-flag-incident.1942240/page-2#post-25626177 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/valencia-atletico-madrid-r.1940577/#post-25604410 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/valencia-atletico-madrid-r.1940577/#post-25604593 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/a-league-grand-final-r.1938360/page-2#post-25579848 Must be a new rule. That's just a sample. And before you say that they are all positive, at least four of them needle me for an alleged pro-Stott bias, when I hadn't even posted on the topic at hand yet. If you think I'm wrong, go ahead and say so. But it seems pretty clear you've been opposed to the idea an American could do well at this World Cup from the beginning: http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/world-cup-referee-forum.1843704/#post-24615877 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/world-cup-referee-forum.1843704/#post-24616519
Baharmast is the only one down in Brazil of the names you mention. I know he's an instructor, but my understanding is he's more of an advisor to or deputy under Busacca right now. Someone with more info than me might be able to clarify.
Although I love me some good banter between Mass and Redstar, let's not clutter up the thread before the match has even begun. And come on, @MassachusettsRef, don't go bringing logic into this. We know it's all about sensationalism with the poster who shall not be named.
Gentlemen, gentlemen! Step back from your keyboards please. That's good, thank you. Now, on the whistle ...
I'm nearly as excited for this game as for the USMNT games. Not quite, but nearly. Go Geiger and crew!
It will be interesting to see how the officials manage any theatrics, notably from Spain, if they start getting desperate to force a win. It has the potential to get very contentious particularly when combined with the hard pressing game Chile employ. Is there anything officials can do prior to this in terms of early game management or is it simply the case of reacting to it as/if it develops?
Hurd seemed really out of position when he signaled for the throw in at the halfway line. Sprinted immediately afterwards to get back in line. Perhaps the defense covered a lot of ground in that time frame. All good though.