Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Sanneh97, Aug 2, 2002.

  1. Sanneh97

    Sanneh97 New Member

    Jul 24, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Why is it that we use the 4th pick (I think) in the draft on a kid that we never play? Isnt anyone else curious to see what he can do?? I know that he got a good 20 minutes in the friendly with BOCA but that is hardly enough to figure out what he is capable of....
    I guess he must really suck it up at practice if everyone else (including Ludwig & Lassiter) is getting playing time ahead of him
  2. Colin Grabow

    Colin Grabow New Member

    Jul 22, 1999
    Washington, DC
    I think he played against the Crew the other night.
  3. Sanneh97

    Sanneh97 New Member

    Jul 24, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    MLSNET says he came on in the 89th minute...not much to show there.
    Just my opinion...but maybe for a half they should move Bobby up top and put Mapp on the left side...It has to be a better option than putting Lassiter in.
  4. sebakoole

    sebakoole New Member

    Jul 11, 2002
    Maybe it's not so much that Mapp sucks, maybe it's more evidence that Hudson doesn't have a clue. Clearly DC isn't going to win it all this year so Ray may as well give Mapp some playing time. Even if he appears to suck...maybe he's like another young hopeful for a Washington team, Kwame Brown, and he just needs to build some confidence.
  5. neilgrossman

    neilgrossman New Member

    May 12, 2000
    Hoboken, NJ
    I don't think moving Convey up front is going to solve DC's goal scoring problem. Convey scores about as often as Albright did.

    (Yes, I realize Albright blew tons of goldern opportunities that Convey didn't have. Still, it's not a lot of goals scored.)
  6. Enforcer

    Enforcer New Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    The Quiet Side
  7. Enforcer

    Enforcer New Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    The Quiet Side
    Here are some stats through August 1:

    Bobby Convey

    2000 0 goals and 2 assists in 22 games
    2001 1 goal and 7 assists in 12 games
    2002 2 goals and 2 assists in 18 games

    Total: 3 goals and 11 assists in 52 games

    Chris Albright

    1999 0 goals and 1 assist in 8 games
    2000 3 goals and 0 assists in 25 games
    2001 1 goal and 1 assist in 23 games
    2002 0 goals and 1 assist in 10 games

    Total: 4 goals and 3 assists in 66 games

    Chris was brought into United to score goals, while, Bobby did not have this expectation when he joined the squad.
  8. revelation

    revelation Member+

    Dec 17, 1998
    FC St. Pauli
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Get that chip off your shoulder about Hudson! Mapp is not all that! With the logic of this statement (and the others like it) - Mapp has not played because Hudson hates him. However, given that Hudson, Trask and Onalfo see a lot more of Mapp than any poster here (except perhaps Diceson); I'm guessing that they have a little bit more insight into his playing ability. Perhaps Mapp is not good enough to displace our current left wing (Bobby Convey) or his back up (Chino). Perhaps Mapp is good enough to practice with the team and play with lesser division sides until he gets better. And the history of playing players into position at DC United is questionable at best: on the good we have Tino, Convey, and the best example Olsen. on the bad we have Otero, Moore, Ziadie, and the worst example Albright. Some players can step it up but others cannot and need some more finishing before they are ready!
  9. John_Harkes_6

    John_Harkes_6 New Member

    Mar 29, 2000
    Baltimore, MD.
    well then why the hell did Hudson draft him? The thing that pisses me off the most about Hudson is the wasted friggin' picks. Nick is the only one worth a damn!
  10. Sanneh97

    Sanneh97 New Member

    Jul 24, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    I agree, we spent a high pick on him to what....let Richmond see what he can do. Put Convey in the middle with Etch and let Mapp play on the this point what do we have left to lose?
    Mix it up....see what the kid can do?? Or trade his butt for future considerations. There is no point in letting him sit on the bench for the entire year.
  11. Z010 Union

    Z010 Union Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I partially agree with this - at this point what does it hurt to season the youth a little - the only thing it will really hurt is a fractional piece of attendance. Almost like the month of September for the O's and the Phillies, get a look at what you haven't tried, see if it will work in the future, otherwise let them go.

    I'm indifferent about Mapp, but not about the braintrust. We MUST make an impact in the draft this year. We missed out on some quality players this year. If Ray is not a good drafter, bring in an expert, like other pro leagues do, and let him run the show on draft day. I think sormun could've hooked us up this past year :)
  12. PAW

    PAW New Member

    Aug 27, 1999
    Ijamsville MD
    If we are going to suck this bad I don't want to watch 1,000 minutes of Lazo and 650 minutes of ATC/Lassiter. Was Mapp ripped in the media by Ray after the Boca Jr's match? That seems a bit harsh after the kid has been buried all year. At least he played and scored for the U-20's this week.
  13. revelation

    revelation Member+

    Dec 17, 1998
    FC St. Pauli
    FC Sankt Pauli
    I fundamentally disagree about the draft. I don't see significant value in it most of the time and certainly not the year a player is taken. We've had a few players successful out of the draft but most take at least a year to mature. We have to wait until next year to see if Mapp pans out or not.

    And I can see the arguement that X player for another team has done well this year and they were drafted, but unless that team is as bad as DC United it is a completely different story. Most rookies playing on a bad side without veteran leadership will become players with bad habits (ala Lisi and Ziadie). A rookie coming into a situation where the veterans can lead them to victory occassionally will be much more successful as they don't have all the responsibility.
  14. chayes

    chayes New Member

    Feb 29, 2000
    Raleigh, NC
    Maybe everyone is quick to judge Mapp, but if Hudson isn't even giving the kid a shot at the field, what are we supposed to go on?

    Mapp got an unfair shake in the last two 17 year olds DC drafted (Tino and Convey) have come in and contributed right away. He can't expect to live up to those expectations.

    The problem I have with the draft is that we passed over Gray and Martino to take a 17 year old left midfielder when we have a 18 year old left midfielder.
    Then we draft a guy who wasn't good enough to play in the league last year in the first round.
    Then we draft a keeper who says he won't play anywhere but DC in the 2nd round.
    Incompetence if you ask me.
  15. garrettxxx

    garrettxxx New Member

    Sep 2, 2001
    The draft is not the place too look for immediate help.

    I saw Mapp play in the friendly against FC Basil. He looked ok, but like Convy and Olsen in their first year he hasn't got the Defensive skills to go with good offensive talent. He is not as quick or fluid as Bobby. However, if he had gotten some playing time this year, he would be a better player and could make more contributions this year.

    There are very few players that can come in and make an impact right out of college. It is gonna take them a year to get used to the level of play. Look at Nelson, he is much much better after a year in the league. If DC wants immediate impact they will need to trade players, bring in players from abroad, or find good A-League players that can play in MLS.
  16. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Good points.

    No, as I said all along, Mapp isn't Convey nor is he Santino. If coaches had realized how good those guys would be before the draft they'd be among the top 2 or 3 picks each year ... Convey and Santino are THAT good.

    Mapp is a good player and will become a very good player. Technically he has the skill that people drool over. Physically he is fast, agile and fairly tall (5'10+). But, he's not a finished product by any means. IMHO, he'll be a cross between a Steve Ralston and a Brian West. Fast but skilled.

    Right now he's having a very hard time adjusting to the speed of play (speed of thought) at the professional level. Kinda like a 22 or 23 year old Nelsen had that difficulty last season. And Mapp is only 18.

    No training camp or preseason really sets a rookie back. In the NFL you seldom see a rookie that "holds out" make a significant impact. If the rookie were 18 years old, the time missed is even more problematic. In addition, he has been attending high school, not learning the ins and outs of the team. Against Boca he was thrown into the fire, and looked like he probably would have in the MLS preseason if he had been there. Compared to mid-season MLS players and visitors from one of South America's top clubs, he looked every bit like a green rookie ... which he was.

    Revelation's comment about the draft is totally true. If you only look at the first year, then the Dallas Burn made a huge mistake drafting Eddie Johnson, because he didn't join the team until late (much like Mapp did) and he didn't have much of an effect that season. In the Burn's preseason, he showed that he was a monster and had all of the Burn fans super-excited. If he hadn't injured his knee just before the start of the season, he would have been one of this years' sensations.

    By the 2004 season (third year in the league, and generally when most draft experts start rating the drafts) Mapp will have shown his mettle. Right now, he needs to concentrate on learning and adjusting to the higher level of play in MLS.

    As for Martino, everybody knew he had talent, and everybody knew he was erratic. If/when he becomes consistent he'll be a great player. As for Gray, NOBODY realized how good a defender that converted forward was! His draft value skyrocketed when he played with the LA Galaxy and more than held his own. Everyone was shocked. Sigi had hoped to grab Gray late in the first or sometime in the second round, but after that performance he knew he had no chance. Chicago got another gem just like they did when they grabbed Carlos Bocanegra.

    Just for the record, both Martino and Gray came out after their sophmore season in college, and were much more ready to play than a 17 year old kid that still had another year of high school left. The top sophmore was actually Brad Davis, who went #3, and is having a nice but not phenomenal rookie season. I think the player closest to Mapp's age is Jordan Stone, the Dmid for the Dallas Burn, who appears to be progressing nicely, but still hardly sees any playing time.

    It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to judge Mapp. Give him some time, I think you'll be very pleased.

  17. jeffmefun

    jeffmefun Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Quakeland, CA
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn't it a "high ankle" or "high calf" sprain or something like that?
  18. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Yeah I think you are right. I didn't exactly remember what the specific injury was but I knew it was in his leg and it did not involve reconstructive surgery.

  19. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
  20. The Artist

    The Artist Member+

    Mar 22, 1999
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd like to become one of these draft experts. Where can I obtain such a certificate?

    I don't think there are many posters here judging Mapp. Nobody's seen him. I don't even know what he looks like yet. I think the point of this thread is to judge Hudson. Maybe it's way too early to judge Ray, though I'm a little disappointed that he says things (even if more or less off the record) like he is disappointed in Justin and expects a lot more out of him. If he had said, Justin's just not ready yet and hasn't had enough time with the team but wait another year or two and you'll see what a gem he was at the fourth pick then I'd be fine with him not playing much. Instead Hudson basically seems to be saying we really shouldn't have taken him at #4 because he's got a long way to go and getting a few garbage minutes at the end of the season isn't gonna do much to help this kid. In other words, "Oops."

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