So you don't see the possible slight to not playing local teams on the tour? If Real Madrid can play teams from Hong Kong, ManU can play a team from the states.
I think you'll find his complaint is that people ONLY moan about Man Utd not playing MLS clubs, as if it's quite fine for Juventus, Barcelona & Celtic to come over and not play MLS teams, but if Man Utd do the same as those clubs then it's outrageous.
Re: Re: Manchester United to tour US again I have nothing against Man Utd -- or Juventus, Barca, Celtic and Club America. I have everything against Champions World and the cynical atitude that any team is better than an MLS team as a draw on the tour. The promoters appeared to go out of their way to exclude a team from the very country 'hosting' the tour. That re-enforces the attitude that the US has no business taking part in the world's game; this is not for you America. Yankee, go home (in your own country). But we are glad to take your money.
Re: Re: Re: Manchester United to tour US again I can't argue with people who are unhappy with ChampionsWorld for this, as I already stated I would like to see United play an MLS team, but people are singling out our club alone, and I think that's unfair, that's all.
Yeah, there is something different about the USA. In most other countries, fans would come out in droves even if their local team got trounced 6-0. They would be fascinated by the European style of play and they would be in awe of seeing their team play one of the best teams in the world. No matter what, they would continue to support their team. It doesn't work that way in America. If the Fire or the Metros lost by a large margin, it would be great fodder for the blatantly anti-soccer media here. They'd point out how bad we are at soccer and how its not worth going to see an MLS game. The Eurosnobs wouldn't want to go, nor would the casual fans who wouldn't want to spend money to see a team that "isn't very good". It would make it even harder to sell soccer here, and the sport on all levels in this country would suffer. Additionally, I'm not sure that MLS teams would want to take time out of their schedules to play an exhibition. Its not worth the injury risk, and either way teams want to rest their teams in between games. Playing arguably the best team in the world isn't really anyone's idea of rest. Personally, I really am not sure how an MLS side would do against first-team Manchester United. My guess is that we could pull off something in the 3-1 loss area if we played the MLS Cup winner against Man United. But its only speculation. I'd be interested in seeing how MLS stacks up against the Premiership, but understand that there is a certain risk involved. The game here needs to walk before it can run, and getting MLS to the level of the highest leagues in the world is a goal. We also want soccer to be as mainstream here as baseball and football. But its something that will take time.
I'm not even sure whether its worth dignifying that with a response. I should assume your dog just died or something and its a bad day for you. But here goes. I'm not sure why following Man United makes me or anyone else a "sheep". If we have passion for our team and we follow their every move, whats so wrong with that? All we want is to see our team play in person, and for those of us who lack the funds and/or vacation time needed to see them in Manchester, this is the next best thing. As for mocking Tim Howard, I can't speak for all United fans, but I've defended him to the last snicker. Despite the people who made fun of his Tourette's (mostly the bastards at the British tabloids), I always thought he had what it took to make it in England. When I first heard the rumor that United were after him, it didn't surprise me that we was being looked at by a world-class team, though I was definitely ecstatic about another American getting to play on a Premiership pitch each week. As for the soccer being meaningless, I'm not sure how a Man United v Chicago Fire match would have lots of meaning. Its still an exhibition, and the results still don't count towards any silverware. I never said you had to feel gulity about whining. In fact, deep down I think that you relish the masochism involved with being a poor American soccer fan, unable to get the respect you so sorely deserve. Promote the game, cheer your heart out for your team(s). That's being an American soccer fan.
I see what you mean, but on the tour last summer, Timmy Howard impressed SAF enough to get consideration as the #1 keeper (a decision sealed by Barthez poor showing a few days later in Portugal). There is a fight for that second midfield spot between Nicky Butt, Eric Djemba-Djemba and Phil Neville, while it might not carry over until next summer, if it does those 3 ball winners will be flying aroud the field trying to win the 50/50s. Would Timmy have played early in the season had it not been for those two games? Thats hard to say. But players who are not locks to the first team, say David Bellion, Darren Fletcher, Quinton Fortune, and the like will bust their ass playing because they know what will happen if they impress. Hell, the way things are going for Kenny Cooper, he could be one of those kids trying to force himself into consideration. And possible Danny Szetela and Jonathon Spector as well. So why Ryan Giggs or Paul Scholes may not go all out, I don't think the whole United squad would be holding back. Espically if they are playing a team like Real. First of all, that was the British papers and websites (one called him "the swearing savior") that did the mocking. And then you had those same website interview people with TS right after Timmy was signed who explained what is was like (gasp-they made it clear it wasn't all about swearing!-gasp). Most of the people here were estatic at the idea of an American possibly being on United's reserves, but a Yank starting for United? That was even too much for bigsoccer. I didn't like Timmy when he was in the MLS because he played for the Scum and I am a DC United fan (actually that made the move double sweet, since it hurt the Jersey boys). I never knew he had TS until all the transfer talk happend and it is deplorable to mock somebody for having a condition like that.
Well ManUtd are the headliners though, right? I mean the Celtic/Boca match didn't draw any better than a decently attended MLS game. They're the impetus for this thing, the factor spurring on the ticket sales, and their statements all along have been about promoting the game in America. If they really wanted to _promote_ the game, they'd probably want to play a local club. As it stands right now, it looks like they're sticking a tap in the keg and draining it. Is there really anything wrong with thinking that it, if nothing else, it's a fairly rude gesture? Then we get to hear Giorgio spew his wisdom that his little sideshow proves that if you bring the best players over, they'd draw 50,000 every game, and all the morons in the press nod gleefully along: http://www.thedailystar.com/sports/2003/10/27/sphall.html
The reason that you never knew about Howard having TS is that the American press and fans were more respectful - the British press had no compunction. Many of the fans of the team responded, on this board and others, accordingly. I defended Tim against enough of them to remember. I'm not a Metro fan, but I've always respected his skills. You can check the posts going back to when the Man U rumors started - when Howard played for the US in Confed Cup - I was one who dared post that Timmy was good enough to earn a start over Barthez. I was reviled by many, many Man U fans for even the raising the possibility - and even the kind posters said it would take Tim years. The thing is, Tim's skills haven't improved since leaving MLS - he still plays the same. So he was that good before he went - and before he ever pulled on a Man U shirt, right here in our MLS, the league so many posters here say isn't good enough to even play a meaningless game with Man U. I am cynical about the CW tour and Man u's participation in it, partly because of Charlie's stupid grudge - but frankly, it's being supported by many on these boards as justified, and the Euro snobs have their moment in the sun with teams they respect never having to compare with MLS. It's not helping the sport. It's also simple courtesy - the host country should get a game, and at least one of the eight MLS teams could clear their schedule for it. It's true that some Man U fans are not sheep, just merely loyal fans. If so, they are the ones that should be most willing and able to identify with loyal fans of American soccer who don't appreciate the shill game Champions World (and man u by association) is running. Finally, I won't be going to see Juventus or Real either, unless they play an MLS team. And for the poster who intimated no one would go if it was an MLS match - well, I respectfully disagree. Have the match - then we'll see how MLS fans stack up.
I wonder how much of this deal is because of the bad blood between MLS and Stillitano? Is he sitting in his office with a smile as he screws MLS?
Please, nobodoy would go see the Fire play Man Utd. I mean, the Fire struggle to draw 5,000 or 6,000 in MLS right? Until the Fire can prove that they could draw as many as 25,000 for a game against the Rapids, there's no way to think they could draw with Man Utd.
Over 60,000 watched the Galaxy beat the Revs last year. That's more than comparable to many of the Man U tour crowds.
My point is, if the Fire can draw 30,000 for the freakin' Rapids, what do you suppose they'd draw for Manchester United? I'll give you a hint: New Soldier Field's capacity is around 65,000.
If you believe that in a game between the Fire and United, the Fire would be the team that draws fans, you really need to share what you are smoking.
Re: Re: Manchester United to tour US again Believe me, Fire fans would be there in force - and so would other MLS fans, if the Fire was representing for the league. If you're deluded enough to think otherwise (have you spent any time on these boards? Have you been to the Fire boards? Ever?)- you've got stronger stuff to smoke than I've ever had.
I've said in the past that ManU and the other top european teams should play MLS teams because it's simply bad manners... But I also think it's probably bad business as well. If ManU play the NY next time and Madrid play Los Angeles it brings American football(sic) into the great soccer family in a way that is very real and apparent to everyone. In the long run that helps everyone who has an interest in soccer succeeding in the States - and that obviously includes ManU, Madrid and the rest.
Exit poll numbers indicate the answers will be 100% and yes. I might actually use this discussion in my class work....
First: Sheep = Leeds Suppporters Second: United are interested in promoting THEMSELVES - they are coming here because they think the game is growing fine on it's own in the States and want to "ride the wave" - it's ironic that they seem to have more faith in American soccer than some Americans seem to have Third: The Tour Sponsor is responsible for scheduling venues AND the opposition Fourth: (Remember that the Boca/Celtic match was on again - off again which had to adversely affect attendance) But still, a Boca/MLS or Celtic/MLS wouldn't have drawn as well there either Fifth: United are off to their best ever start in the Premiership, with all the factors and advantages of their pre-season tour simply being in the US, I'd bet Ferguson is looking at how by playing teams like Barca and Juve were preferable to playing their usual Hong Kong XI pre-season opponents.... I do agree that it's polite, if nothing else, to play a host country's team when you tour. And United could probably very well force ChampionsWorld's hand and make them schedule an MLS team, but I can imagine them seeing the small (but growing) numbers of the MLS and compare those to their own tour attendance from last summer, and they are probably too far apart for them see the immediate advantage. This may not be smart in the long term, but it also might not matter either...
Re: Re: Re: Manchester United to tour US again Fire fans are indeed the best, and I think Section 8 is as great a place to see a game as any in all of soccer. But you have to consider that while Fire fans would like to see their team play a world-class side, you're still going to have trouble drawing huge numbers of casual MLS fans for what amounts to little more than an exhibition. How many in the soccer mom crowd have even heard of Manchester United? I think it would be hard to say exactly what the numbers would be, but I think that is 65,000 showed up, you'd have about 20,000 cheering for the Fire, and about 45,000, mostly big Euro soccer people, cheering for Man United. Despite the success of the Fire, and the absolutely rabid fan base, Man United would draw in their fans from all over the midwest. Of course the Fire and Man United are my two favorite soccer teams. I'd have trouble deciding who to cheer for.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Manchester United to tour US again I don't think you'd have any problem drawing a stadium with 50% Fire/MLS fans. Promote it as "US don't get no respect" and a lot of those kids who went to last summers games would be wearing MLS jerseys, not their Man Un ones. Even if it were not, at Philly it was 90/10 Man United/Barca. How many people at that game went to see Barcelona? Not many from what I saw. Finally, as I posted in the DCU boards, the DCU/Blackburn friendly sure exposed Rovers weak defence even though neither side was at full intensity.
Re: Re: Re: Manchester United to tour US again I give up. This is like trying to talk evolution with Falwell.