Man United v Charlton - 9/13 [R]

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Achtung, Sep 11, 2003.

  1. Udpint

    Udpint New Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    Denmark
    Djemba was on the bench, but didn't play. Kleberson is still injured.
     
  2. haven

    haven New Member

    Jul 9, 2003
    Boston, MA
    So, how were the chances on both sides? Was the score a fair refletion?

    The post game reports made it sound like Ronaldo was very unlucky to not have an assist because of poor finishing by his teammates - is that true?

    It would be wonderful to see him become a big contributor this year.
     
  3. bkn0528

    bkn0528 Member

    Aug 2, 2003
    nyc
    ronaldo's ball for ole was an excellent chance - right across the goal 5 yards out. ole heads it wide.
     
  4. Snuffles

    Snuffles New Member

    May 27, 2003
    UK
    Only saw highlights of this, and still not sure on the formation, was it 4-3-3, with Butt, Keane and Phil as the midfield and Giggs, Ronaldo and Ruud as the forwards? Or was it the old 4-2-3-1? If so, who played the attacking midfield spot, Keane?
     
  5. Mac_Howard

    Mac_Howard New Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    Mandurah, Perth, WA
    Another stodgy performance, I'm afraid. Very little cohesion in midfield, even less penetration. I can't understand SAF playing Phil Neville out at right midfield :rolleyes:

    They began 4-4-2/4-5-1 (whichever description you prefer) :

    ........................RvN
    ................Giggs
    Ronaldo...............................P. Neville

    .............Keane.........Butt

    Fortune......O'Shea...Ferdinand...G. Neville

    That was until Keane went off with an ankle injury. Solksjaer was brought on and went to right midfield and P Neville replaced Keane. That was half way through the second half immediately before the first goal.

    Even with Charlton down to 10 men (half way through the second half) Utd were unable to take control of the game. Just no cohesion at all in midfield. What penetration there was came from Ronaldo who was certainly the best Utd player on the field - Kishishev gave him a taste of what to expect from Premiership defenders when he makes a fool of them. Kishishev was yellow carded for the most blatant body check but could have joined Euell in the early bath had the referee been less lenient with him. He hacked Ronaldo down several times.

    Both goals came from freekicks taken by Giggs. The first was very fortunate. Freekick into the wall, came back for Gary Neville to make a good strike from the edge of the box. It hit Butt on the back and bounced across goal conveniently for RvN to thrash home from a few yards.

    The second was RvN with his tricks. A freekick out on the right, level with the 18 yard line. RvN stood slighty left of centre about 3 yards out and at least a couple of yards offside. As the freekick was taken he jumped back into an onside position and then back into the offside position - he spent just enough time onside to be judged ok. Giggs hit the ball across goal behind the defenders and RvN scrambled it home challenged only by the 'keeper.

    Apart from that there were only a couple of other shots on goal of any merit - Ronaldo did well, someone, I think it was Solksjaer, should have scored with a header. I don't really recall the Charlton defence being opened up at all beyond that.

    They say that if a team wins matches when it plays badly then that's the team that will win the league. If that's the case then Utd are well on their way :D
     
  6. haven

    haven New Member

    Jul 9, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Was Solksjaer hurt at all and unsuited to playing the full 90?

    I can't help but think he'd have been an improvement over Phil Neville playing in an advanced position. Or, of course, Fergie couldn't just concede his tactics are crazed and play a traditional 4-4-2 with Giggs and Ronaldo on the wings, and RVN and Ole up front. Nah, that's a reach :rolleyes:
     
  7. Mac_Howard

    Mac_Howard New Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    Mandurah, Perth, WA
    >Was Solksjaer hurt at all and unsuited to playing the full 90?

    I don't know, haven, but even I prefer Ole out there to Phil ;)

    I too was puzzled that SAF didn't put Solksjaer alongside RvN, move Ronaldo across to the right and play Giggs out left. Perhaps because Ronaldo was making a mess of Kishishev, who knows? His tactics are not always obvious :rolleyes:
     
  8. haven

    haven New Member

    Jul 9, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Then play Ronaldo in a free role right behind RVN, Giggs on the left, and Solksjaer on the right. Even you Solksjaer non-believers prefer him there. ;)

    Did Butt and Keane at least annihilate Charlton's attack? If you've got to use such a defensive pairing, at least we can hope it did its job!
     
  9. Mac_Howard

    Mac_Howard New Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    Mandurah, Perth, WA
    Although they had a lot of the possession, Charlton didn't really look like scoring. The closest call came when Howard went for a cross and didn't reach it - he collided with O'Shea I think it was - and the ball broke to a Charlton player who missed an open goal when under challenge. But otherwise the defence was seldom troubled.

    Butt didn't have a very good game. He doesn't always seem to play that well with Keane. Keane, again, didn't look like the player he used to be. He did a reasonable job but we didn't see him flying around the pitch as we used to. Of course, SAF may have had the CL fixture next week in mind and was looking for an easy time for his players. That could have been why Ole didn't come on until Keane was injured. He also kept Silvestre off the pitch until late in the game - just gave him a few minutes at the end when the match was dead.

    Utd got the points and that was the important thing. I don't think they expended too much energy and I think most players will be available for the CL game. Keane must be the one doubt from this match. He didn't come off because he had to - he carried on playing after the tackle that caught his ankle and I think SAF was saving him by bringing him off.

    It's just that the fluidity to their game is missing at the moment. Midfield isn't keeping the ball. They're certainly not creating the scoring opportunities we're used to. Just not the impressive performance that you often get from Utd. It's not just one match but we've had three in a row now and it does reveal how important Scholes is to that midfield and that we are missing Beckham and Veron when it comes to imaginative midfield play.

    But on an encouraging note - a very encouraging performance from Ronaldo.
     
  10. Motterman

    Motterman Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Couple of things:

    1) Same ol cheating Arsenal ;)

    2) Don't expect a performance like that out of Ronaldo every week, I think we've all learned that by now. The good news is that he's young and we can look forward to a time when we can expect that weekly.

    3) Get the ball to Ruud, he scores.

    That is all for the moment.
     
  11. gildarkevin

    gildarkevin Member

    Aug 26, 2002
    Washington, DC
    That was just a pretty workmanlike victory and showed the same old stuff we've seen the past few weeks: very solid defending that started with the midfield closing down passing space and continued trouble in the final 3rd breaking down the defense.

    Ronaldo definitely showed brilliance at times, but I'd rather seem more function, less form. His moves don't always seem to serve a purpose. If can just just use it to free up some space to give the ball off and then get a return pass, I think he'll do a better job of creating chances. The look on his face after setting up Ole's header (missed wide) was priceless, though, as if he was saying "what more can I do".

    Finally, who knew that G. Neville could strike a ball with is left (or even his right) like that? Dean Kiely would have had trouble reaching that one if it hadn't hit Butt right in the mush.
     
  12. Mac_Howard

    Mac_Howard New Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    Mandurah, Perth, WA
    I think the form with Ronaldo is that a defender needs to get to him before he starts moving. The Newcastle defenders did that and they kept him very quiet but he was able to run at the defenders in the Charlton game.

    There was an interesting comment in one report I read that highlighted something I hadn't seen - Ronaldo intelligently made himself available for a Howard thrown clearance when opposition attacks broke down. They compared it with Kanchelskis and Schmeichel. By dropping back this gives him the space to move or drags his fullback hopelessly out of of position and was possibly why he was able to run at the defence more easily with Charlton.

    A case of players getting to know each other's game, I guess. Hopefully that will continue as the season wears on :)
     
  13. Motterman

    Motterman Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    George Best on Christiano Ronaldo

    George Best on Ronaldo

     

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