Make Copa America 4 year west hemisphere tournament

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

The only thing that keeps this from happening is that we SOUTH AMERICANS, don't want anything to do with CONCACAF we truly don't want to be associated with them, we don't even like it when the two words are pronounced toguether, we don't like any ideas of Merging we don't care about their opinion on what we should do with our COPAs and that is basically it. We can deal with Mexico and even the US, in our copa, I personally think the have something to offer to the tournament and also Mexico has earned it's right to be there by participating in Copa Libertadores and other tournaments.

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

We still virgin, all the times we had sex don't count.

It is too late to say that Copa America is for CSF teams only (unless you believe in born again virgins).

The question is will Copa America keep on the down slop and become a 2nd tier tournament or do something to make it a premier tournament like it used to be. Before you say it should go back to a CSF only tournament (10 teams), let me state that money as well as the success of 16 team Euro make this a hard sell. I don't know that a 10CSF + 6 CONCACAF tournament will work (I believe it will), but at this point CSF has very little to lose by taking that chance.

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

Well I guess U didn't see the part where I'm stating that USA and Mexico are considered to be a possitive assets to the tournament.

Copa America has been declining since the early 90's and and it hit rock bottom a long time ago, CSF still refused the idea to have an all Americas COpa, we even invited Japan, who is in the other side of the world before other CONCACAF teams.

Last C.A was a very good one, most of us where pretty happy with it and Venezuela 07 looks like is going to be even better, the main reason is that every S.A failed to meet their W.C objectives, weather it was qualifying , going far into the tournament or winning it, so every single team has something to prove to their fans, so the answer to your question about the second tier tournament is Yes we did let our tournament become a second tier tournamet rather than having a COnmebol/Concacaf copa, and now that our tournament is coming back we see no reason to do it now.

As for the money issue, I don't see how adding Guatemala or Honduras to our tournament is going to make us more money, is not just about the level of competition, just to give you en Example a game between Bolivia-Chile will bring in more money than a Ecuador-Canada, or a Paraguay-USA, the reason is that we have all kinds of rivalries amongst ourselfs and we love seeing them play on the field , even if the level of competition is not that good.

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

While I agree with the essence of your post, I have to disagree that the US will not generate increase interest. If all you did was account for the socio- political aspect of the US relationship with Latin America, then that by itself will bring in more than enough people to see the game. While Canada will not be probably be a huge draw, other countries within CONCACAF will be. Mexico and Costa Rica have been participating in Copa America,so I would be surprise if they do not draw attention.

Pike

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

OMG , how many more times do I have to say that US and Mexico are good for C.A??

"Well I guess U didn't see the part where I'm stating that USA and Mexico are considered to be a possitive assets to the tournament. "
^^^
did U not see this???

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

Yes, I read that you wrote that, but you also wrote this, "to make us more money, is not just about the level of competition, just to give you en Example a game between Bolivia-Chile will bring in more money than a Ecuador-Canada, or a Paraguay-USA,..."

I suggest if you want to be understood more clearly, you use examples consistent with your points.

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

How many U.S fans are getting ready to go to Chavezland?? and there aren't that many Paraguayans going down there either, maybe we can all carpool to the stadium a midsize minivan should be able to fit all the fans from both teams.

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

Pike,

With all due respect; i really doubt that the US brings in that much money... The US does not have many fans (proportionatley speaking) the main attraction to the US is that there are many soccer fans from various countries. But really don't see the US as being that much of a draw. Most of the soccer money that comes out of the US is mostly from Mexicans watching Mexico.

 

I completely agree with everything else you wrote, but wouldn't it be better to hold the tournament in the year immediately following each WC?

- You avoid any conflict with the Euro Championship. Taking advantage of a gap in the int'l calendar. Basically you have all the attention to yourself.

- You avoid conflict with CONMEBOL WC qualifying which starts early and takes forever.

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

According to the US Department of State, there are 29 countries with travel warnings, Colombia is the only Souith American country on the list.

The US usually have a significant group of people willing to travel to see the Nats play. Venezuela,like most country, have American ex- pat community. Chavez can say alot of things about the American Gov't, but I doubt he will turn away American fans with deep pockets.

Furthermore, The US is a TV market is huge. In the past, marketing companies over- estimate the value of their TV contracts. This resulted in the US not being to view some matches. With the ratings rising, "The Mouse" and other networks may be willing to shellout the money. BTW, TV rights is a huge cash cow in the sporting world, so this would be a BIG deal for any organization.

Pike

 

Those are good points.

I was thinking they hold it the same year as UEFA, but the other summer month (UEFA in June, Copa in July), so the global media can cover both. If the tournament is held the year following a WC, then the CONCACAF qualifying for Copa would be rushed. I was thinking it would be CONCACAF qualifying for Copa starting in 2010 (November-ish) then after the 2012 Copa, have them start Qualifying for 2014.

Having their own year for the tournament (2007, 2011) would generate more media interest as it would be alone, but the CONCACAF qualifying for it would be hard. One of the main points I was getting at is that the 10 CONMEBOL nations would not need to qualify, as really any of them would spank 98% of CONCACAF. CONCACAF nations would still need to prove they can make it to the tournament, thus require a qualifcation process. It would also give CONCACAF more FIFA "A" matches.

 

Same year as EUROS would be better, because the schedules of the European leagues made room for the big events. So it should be at EXACTLY the same time, that way you'd get all your best players. There wouldn't be difficulties with covering both events as there is the time difference. You could watch the EC in the morning and the CA in the afternoon.

 

The 6 teams from the previous WC qualifying hex go to the Copa America.

 

I agree that beyond Mexico, the US, and maybe CR, CONCACAF doesn't have attractive teams, but it's not like Venezuela or Ecuador have traditionally brought much to the table. And 4 groups of 4 is such a better format over anything you can do with 10 or 12 teams.


Also, you want to revive interest in the Copa America among SA teams and fans? Just let the US win it one year, I promise you wouldn't see any B teams the next time around.

 

I totaly agree.

Copa America 2007 would include USA, Mexico, Cost Rica, Trinidad & Tobago, Guatemala and Panama.

 

I could like with this way. However, I was trying to get the USa and mexico more FIFA "A" matches as well as appease the CONMEBOL folks who don't like the idea of us just entering the tournament. Working our way to the Qualification would make it harder.

The extra qualification matches, matches that count, would help the US players. they would mean more than a friendly against Jamaica at Crew Stadium.

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

I've state this elsewhere in more detail, but in short

-the US has more expendable income, on average, than any population in the world

-the US has 300 million, with a surging hispanic population to boot

Even if 5% of the American population follow the sport, the US can produce more $$$ than all South American countries outside of Brazil and Argentina. I'm not trying to insult any South American countries, just stating the economic and demographic realities. You can't compare Ecuador to even some individual US states, like California, in terms of population and expendable income, no offense.

And soccer appears to be growing well. The World cup Final was watched live by around 17 million people in the US (about 5.5% of the total population), which is more than the average for the NBA finals in this country and not far from World Series average. And by the way, there are only 13 million people in Ecuador, Bolivia has only 8 million.


World Cup edges NBA finals in US TV ratings:
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=afp-fblwc2006usamedia&prov=afp&type=lgns

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

Please there will not be a problem traveling to Venezuela, what Chavez thinks of Bush has no relation to his opinion on the citizens, which he has said more than once is favorable. Whether it is an honest opinion or PR it is the same, US citizens will be treated no differently.

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

The tournamente should stay exactly how it is right now. All participants of CONMEBOL competing against guest teams to spice things up a little... but that's it. Any talks about merging confederations is ridiculous. Last time I checked, South America is doing alright on the world stage at both adult and youth levels... what would we gain from it?

Save from Mexico, there's hardly tough competition in CONCACAF. I can realistically blame the lack of support from the European leagues to let our players go to this tournament on the recent success of Costa Rica and Honduras, for example, than on the great level that these teams display.

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

I agree, merging the regions, CONMEBOL and CONCACAF would be a bad idea and one that really doesn't help anyone.

What I think most people are trying to say now is to try and use the tempate that CONMEBOL has created for the Copa, and add to it to enhance it to raise the respectability of the tournament.

If all 10 CONMEBOL nations were joined by 6 CONCACAF sides, say the 6 that made the Hex for WC qualifying, then the 16 team tournament would be able to generate more revenue for the host nation, and would be able to provide different compatition for CONMEBOL nations that would have otherwise just been beaten by Brasil and Argentina and gone home.

 

The only way Copa America will regain its level is when the European leagues become more flexible and actually ALLOW our players to play in it. The interest on the part of the South American fans and media have always been there... in our eyes, it is STILL a prestigious tournamente... except that it's lost some of its former value throughout the years, due to the reasons mentioned above.

Any other talk about merging confederations, inviting more teams, blah blah blah... that's just more excuse for Leoz and co. to generate more money out of it, and that's that. Do you really think we need CONCACAF to improve our level? Honestly, if a team like Paraguay can get a silver medal in the past olympics and even a team like Chile can get a bronze at the olympics in the year 2000, with a non existent infrastructure, I'd say that the talent is there.

So yes, the tournament should stay as it is. Invite some teams here and there, and that's it. People will still fill the stadiums to see Peru vs Chile and the such. But what's crucial is to have the European teams to allow our players to play it. That is truly the only way to improve the tournament.

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

Wait, so adding the US and Mexico guarantees a better chance against Brazil and Argentina? And what does that have to do AT ALL with the revenue being generated by the host nation? Your argument is a bit on the weak side.

In the past, the prestige of the tournament has been built on the level of its players and the quality of its teams. Historically, the tournament has never generated a lot of money... it is only NOW that the money aspect has become absolutely relevant. In order to raise the relevant and prestige of the tournament, like I said before, will be linked directly to quality of the teams involved... and that should mean that all of our best players should come back from Europe to play in it.

I'll tell you right now, a Chilean squad without Mark Gonzales is not the same. I can mention every country, with lots of European based players that would take a hit if these players do not go.

On another note, I can't help but chuckle when people say "well yeah, the US beat Argentina 3-0 10 years ago in Copa America, the competition is hardly challenging", so what? It's clear to me that was more due to the circumnstances already mentioned than reality. The US went on to be dead last in 1998... does that mean Chile is automatically better than them? A lot of time has passed, and I'd be hard pressed to predict whether the US can beat Chile or Peru right now.

 

thanks Knave!

 

Re: New format about COPA AMERICA

Ecuador? California's economy is bigger than Brazil's and Argentina's, combined. By itself it's the 6th biggest economy on the planet.