Lyon vs Liverpool - CL - Nov 4 [R]

Grinners89 · Nov 1, 2009

UEFA Champions League - Matchday 4
Olympique Lyon vs Liverpool FC

Venue: Stade de Gerland, Lyon
Time: 7:45pm GMT
Time Converter

Current Standings (group E)

1. Lyon (played 3, won 3, drawn 0, lost 0, points 9)
2. Fiorentina (played 3, won 2, drawn 0, lost 1, points 6)
3. Liverpool (played 3, won 1, drawn 0, lost 2, points 3)
4. Debrecen (played 3, won 0, drawn 0, lost 3, points 0)

Liverpool Injuries
Gerrard - groin
Riera - hamstring
Kelly - ankle
El Zhar - knee
Skrtel - virus
Agger - virus
Aquilani - virus
Degen - not registered for CL squad

Possible Starting XI's

Lloris
Reveillere - Cris - Toulalan - Cissokho
Pjanic - Makoun - Kallstrom
Govou - Lisandro - Bastos

Reina
Johnson - Carra - Agger - Aurelio
Lucas - Masch
Yossi - Kuyt - Babel
Torres

Form

Lyon - WLWLW

Liverpool - LLWLL

Key Players

Lyon: Michel Bastos, Lisandro Lopez, Sidney Govou

Liverpool: Fernando Torres, Yossi Benayoun, Glen Johnson

Two wide men and a centre-forward will hold the key for both sides. Bastos and Johnson, the flying wing-men, capable of killing teams on the counter attack, as well as using their skill on the ball and change of pace to beat players 1 vs 1. Benayoun and Govou will be more 'cunning' in their attempts to open up opposition defences. While both are in their 30s, their experience is invaluable in a situation like this. Finally, Torres and Lopez will hold the key not just in the ability to hold possession deep in enemy territory, but to put away the limited chances they are likely to get. Apart from these 6 key attacking players, the central midfielders and central defenders for both sides will also be crucial. One mistake is all that is needed to turn a game.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTfpn_xsKhE"]YouTube - Sons Of Shankly[/ame]

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark
At the end of the storm
Is a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of a lark

Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
Tho' your dreams be tossed and blown
Walk on, walk on
With hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone
You'll never walk alone

Grinners89 · Nov 1, 2009

Re: Lyon vs Liverpool - CL - 4th November [R]

Story time kiddies

Liverpool - by Brian James.

I drive with Emlyn Hughes from Anfield to the club's training ground. He stops first at a doctor's for a prescription for a slight throat infection, bounding in in dirty shorts and red shirt through a crowded surgery. No one seems surprised as he appears:
'Morning Emlyn...not too good for Saturday,' they murmur.
'Yeah rubbish.' he agrees, unmoved.
This is the surgery of the club doctor, and international soccer stars jumping the queue are part of the everyday scene.

As we resume the journey, Hughes picks up our conversation from Sunday.
'How do we do it - keep winning? People go on using words like "dedication" as if they were insults. But is it such a crime to do the job you get paid to, and do it as successfully as you know how? I reckon it was even a sot of dedication the number of us who turned up for that "do" on Sunday. The players had given their own party for Callie the night before, so most of us could have done with a night at home. But we'd accepted the invitation...also that was it. How many were missing from the first team? Just Kev. And he's a bit of a law unto himself. The rest were there. We do things together. I'd walk into the toughest dockside pub in the world with this lot. Because you know that if things got tough, nobody would "bottle" it, and scoot off.

'You'll be with us all the way now, right along to Wembley. You'll see. Bet it's a bit different already from where was it you started? Toffeedale?'

Contrasts, of course, abound. Hinckley, where this odyssey began, would be delighted to count a crowd each week as big as the throng of Liverpool fans assembled in the Anfield car park at 9:30am just to watch players arrive for work. Even more are there to watch them drive away after lunch. It is a school holiday, but they are not all kids.

Out at Melwood, the Liverpool training ground, boys use their red scarves and bonnets to part-protect their hands from the barbed-wire and glass as they clamber to perches on top of the wall. Two cold hours later, some are still hanging there...100 yards at least from the nearest live footballer.

Melwood itself is huge, with acreage enough to have replayed all the qualifying matches we have seen simultaneously side by side. It's hard not to think back to Tividale, probably still doing their training on the town car-park.

At the end of Liverpool's training, players and staff grab cups of tea in a dressing-room the size of a small ballroom. And nearly as ornate. Doors from it lead to a sauna, a gym with more gadgets than the set of Dr Who, and plunge baths that could have swallowed not only Hednesford's 'horse-trough' but also their entire 'admin block' with scarcely a ripple.

Back at Anfield, the players de-bus from a small convoy of coaches and, after showering, make their way to the club dining-room. Quietly lit, comfortable, this is no works canteen: everyone is served soup, steak and mountains of veg, and steamed pudding and custard. Free. The flash-back now is that first meal with Tividale. Chinese spareribs eaten standing in shop doorways.

After lunch, the players take their coffee into the lounge. Here, amid the leather chairs of a room about the size of Matlock's main stand, they meet their friends, talk to their agents, conduct press interviews and use the phones to make appointments, place bets, fix dates.

The whole place absolutely reeks of status, style and unassuming, taken-for-granted sophistication. Yet my sharpest memory of the morning was to be none of these, but the last part of the training itself. As Hughes had gloomily forecast, it had been a very hard morning's work.
'We all put on a pound or two with those two weekend parties for Callie...they'll sweat it off. Be sure.'
In the gym...then circuits and sprints...then six-a-side games.

While the players sweated, Paisley had talked. I have known him for years (he has been with Liverpool since 1939) but until recently his role was to be seen at Bill Shankly's right elbow. When Shankly suddenly gave up the job for reasons even he now seems to find hard to comprehend, Paisley, at 54, took over. Last season he became Manager of the Year, and the recipient of the £1,000 cheque from Bells Whisky that goes with the title.

He has little of the verbal flamboyance of his old boss. But a hesitant manner now and again reveals a vivid commentary on the game. Like this:
'The sort of lad I'm looking for here is a kid who will try to nut-meg Kevin Keegan in a training match...but then step aside for him in the corridor.'

Or like: 'We are going for the treble, when to win one thing in a British competition needs a miracle. But I reckon that if you're going to try walking on the water...you'd better get in and practice lengths of the baths to be on the safe side. That's why we don't shirk training.'

Or like: 'I know they're not angels, or if they are they've changed since I was number two to Bill. My job then was the make sure that if they stepped out of line - say with drink, or women, on away trips - he never knew about it. Now it's somebody else's job to hide things from me. If it reaches me it means trouble; if it stops short of my level, then it's team-management.'

Or like: 'Oldham? I haven't mentioned them yet. Just as I haven't mentioned last Saturday's game against Derby, either. We were terrible on Saturday, but they know it. So I just hint to them where things were wrong...and let their pride punish them. Clubs who use training as punishment are mad.'

Or like: 'I'm hoping somebody says something silly in the papers...something I can seize on to stir them up for this cup game. You'd be surprised how often I want to send one of your blokes a fiver for doing my job for me. All players pretend they don't give a damn what anyone writes. But they damn well do.'

About now Paisley excuses himself. 'Got to go. Time for my game. We always end training sessions like this, with the training staff mixed up in one of the six-a-sides. It's what keeps me sane...reminding myself that this is still what it's all about...kicking a ball. Mind you, I'm not as bad as Bill Shankly was; when he was unfit he used to cancel the game.'

So Paisley went off, with Ronnie Moran the trainer, and the rest of the coaches to complete the two teams playing on a side pitch. Ray Clemence was with them...like most goalkeepers, loving it at centre-forward. There was Paisley, a portly 56, doing the tricky business on the wing; and there was some kid from somewhere, a triallist, trying to nut-meg Tommy Smith.

Watching, it made me uneasy, suddenly, to remember what I'd heard way back in Tividale about this player or that who 'Had once had a trial with Wolves...or been fancied for a time by Coventry.' Looking at these thin, desperately-eager kids from Doncaster and Scunthorpe it was painful to realise that this Tuesday morning's kick-about would be the highlight of some of their lives. Here in this shapeless morass was the nearest one or two of them would ever come to 'making it'. If they didn't impress someone within the next half-hour, perhaps, a life's dream would be ended.

But the real point of the interlude was this: that for forty minutes, the last forty minutes of a long, tiring morning, as Paisley and his coaches romped through their daily ego trip, the rest of Liverpool's training went ahead, totally unsupervised. And still every other match goes on with the pace and the committment unabated; goals are made, applauded, mistakes vilified. There are now no coaches around to drive them. There are no referees; every decision is agreed only after much keenly-observed debate. The score is constantly checked, challenged.

And when they come in at the end, they are still arguing, boasting, complaining. Callaghan has his head down:
'We were bloody rubbish,' he mutters.
Hughes is happier...'On the champion side again,' he boasts, amid catcalls.

This apparent obsession needed explanation and Hughes, blowing on his tea, tried to supply it.
'Six-a-sides have always been the biggest part of our training...because you get everything out of it. Stamina, control, touch, teamwork.

'The thing is, we always mix the teams. Every six has a first teamer or two, a couple of reserves, one or two lads. So everybody is trying to prove something. The reserves are trying to show they should be in the first team. The kids love to put their tricks across the stars. And us, the established players, have to show we still have the edge.

'And there's another thing. We've always been bred players here who hate to lose. Tommy Smith is the king of 'em all...the best pro I've ever met. he must have played about two million six-a-sides in his day. But this morning he'd have fought his best mate over a throw-in.

'Ask any pro in England and he'll tell you no one these days can win anything unless they can beat Liverpool. Simple as that. I would bet a stack of money on one fact...if you go back over the past ten years and find out which team has picked up the most points in the last few minutes of a game, it will be Liverpool by a mile. And it all starts here in these six-a-sides. We are such bloody poor losers. All of us. People keep on about how professional we are. And that's right. But at the heart of it is what we are talking about...from the manager downward, we are all like those kids over there hanging over the wall. We love kicking a ball about.'

As we leave Anfield later a gateman, a pensioner, is chasing a kid, perhaps ten, across the park. He catches him and clouts him, hard. And walks back cursing and limping: ''Ard faced little sod!' 'Easy now!' says Bob Paisley. 'Just keep 'em outside, you can't do more.' As the gateman mutters off, Paisley shrugs: 'You can't blame him. A while back he chased off some of them trying to sneak into the dressing-rooms; they tripped him up and smashed his knee-cap deliberately. Only ten and eleven, some of them...but they've got bike chains in their pockets. They're football daft, most of them. But they've another side, worse luck.'

from JOURNEY TO WEMBLEY 1977
Click to expand...

Our players really need to get back to basics. Im not talking about the basics such as passing, running with the ball or defending. Im talking about their love of the game, their love for football...something that should never leave them. Moments like Torres jumping up and celebrating Ngog's goal vs the Mancs...or Reina's celebrations after every single goal we score. Players that love the game...not "pretend" professionals who think too much about themselves.

Thats all I want out of this season...to see the players enjoying the best game in the world again and enjoying success with their teammates. First and foremost, I will be crushed if we dont win anything this season, just like every other season. However, I think all that hurt, that we are all feeling now more than a lot of us could probably remember, would go away if I could see us playing football. Not the shit we've shown so far. Real football.

Comparing what Ive seen so far this season (except for the Man Utd match) to the quotes from Emlyn Hughes, Paisley et al...it makes me really sad because I just cant see the same desire in a lot of our players. Im not talking about just the fringe players like Voronin, but some of our senior players have not been good enough in every aspect.

I can only hope it all changes. Now its up to the players.

newterp · Nov 1, 2009

Re: Lyon vs Liverpool - CL - 4th November [R]

if Gerrard is not fit again - 2 full weeks + 1 day later then we need someone other than Torres to stand up and be counted....

This is essentially a repeat of Marseille 2 seasons ago but it comes in game 4 instead of game 6.

PHootieD · Nov 1, 2009

Re: Lyon vs Liverpool - CL - 4th November [R]

With Degen's not registered and Kelly is injured, if Glen doesn't recover we'll probably go with Carra at RB and bring Skrtel in to CB? Any word on N'gog or Aurelio for this game?

Borussia · Nov 1, 2009

Re: Lyon vs Liverpool - CL - 4th November [R]

Good luck for this crucial away game!

Do you think that Rafa might get fired if your guys don't manage to progress in the CL (and with 9 points lag to spot 1 in the EPL)? Would be a pity.

ForeverRed · Nov 1, 2009

Re: Lyon vs Liverpool - CL - 4th November [R]

Borussia said: ↑

Good luck for this crucial away game!

Do you think that Rafa might get fired if your guys don't manage to progress in the CL (and with 9 points lag to spot 1 in the EPL)? Would be a pity.
Click to expand...

Danke.

I don't think he'll be fired because there is no adequate replacement. He'll get to the end of the season but if he hasn't won anything by then he might very well be forced out.

Hey, theres always the Europa League.

poopoobigelow · Nov 1, 2009

Re: Lyon vs Liverpool - CL - 4th November [R]

Borussia said: ↑

Good luck for this crucial away game!

Do you think that Rafa might get fired if your guys don't manage to progress in the CL (and with 9 points lag to spot 1 in the EPL)? Would be a pity.
Click to expand...

eh... we go through these "crises" every season -- not going to qualifying for europe, crashing out of the CL, rafa sacked/quitting, financial problems... we always pull ourselves through...

i'm not saying that one day these things won't happen, and i'm not saying that i'll be fine with it, but i'm not going to panic after hard loses, dumb rumors, stupid owners' actions... i expect us to win every match we play, i expect rafa to be here for many years, i expect a top 3 finish each season, and i expect us to legitimately challenge for each major trophy and nothing that the 'pundits,' fair-weather fans, and trollers say will make me think otherwise...

salesman · Nov 1, 2009

Re: Lyon vs Liverpool - CL - 4th November [R]

poopoobigelow said: ↑

eh... we go through these "crises" every season -- not going to qualifying for europe, crashing out of the CL, rafa sacked/quitting, financial problems... we always pull ourselves through...

i'm not saying that one day these things won't happen, and i'm not saying that i'll be fine with it, but i'm not going to panic after hard loses, dumb rumors, stupid owners' actions... i expect us to win every match we play, i expect rafa to be here for many years, i expect a top 3 finish each season, and i expect us to legitimately challenge for each major trophy and nothing that the 'pundits,' fair-weather fans, and trollers say will make me think otherwise...
Click to expand...

I don't know. Exactly one year ago, things were quite the opposite. Liverpool were on top of the table, with Arsenal and Chelsea both struggling for the CL spot, and safely surviving a tough CL group that included teams like Madrid and PSV.
it wasn't until early this year when Liverpool began suffering too many draws and the team eventually lost the top position. and at this point, Rafa rumors began to circulate.
I really think this is Rafa's last chance. the preliminary campaign is to die for and if he crashes out, not that i support it, he will be sacked.

el-capitano · Nov 1, 2009

Re: Lyon vs Liverpool - CL - 4th November [R]

Nice thread start btw Grinners!

In.

MetroChile · Nov 1, 2009

In.

Let's get a solid CL win.

YNWA.

CCSC_STRIKER20 · Nov 1, 2009

In. Very important match.

newterp · Nov 1, 2009

From The Times
November 2, 2009
Alyson Rudd, Tony Barrett

Injuries rock Rafael Benitez for Liverpool’s must-win Champions League tie with Lyons

Liverpool are facing huge problems with injuries before their Champions League tie against Lyons on Wednesday. Rafael Benítez could be without a dozen members of his first-team squad.

Anything other than victory in their group E match in France is likely to signal the end of Liverpool’s hopes of qualifying for the knockout stages of the Champions League.

The 3-1 Barclays Premier League defeat away to Fulham on Saturday was Liverpool’s sixth in seven games and the result heaped even more pressure on Benítez, whose decisions to substitute Fernando Torres and Yossi Benayoun during the second half were jeered by Liverpool fans.

Steven Gerrard, the captain, is still struggling with a groin problem that has restricted him to only 25 minutes of playing time in the past six fixtures, while Torres is being nursed through games. He also has a groin injury and is unlikely to play the full match in France.

Albert Riera, the Spain winger, has been absent for the past fortnight with a hamstring strain and Martin Kelly, the defender who featured in the 2-1 defeat against Lyons at Anfield two weeks ago, is out with a damaged ankle.

Glen Johnson, Martin Skrtel, Daniel Agger, Fábio Aurélio and David Ngog missed the match at Craven Cottage through injury and are all understood to be big doubts for Wednesday night. Diego Cavalieri and Alberto Aquilani have flu, while Philipp Degen was not named in Liverpool’s Champions League squad and is unavailable.

The severity of Liverpool’s plight was reflected by Jamie Carragher, who, along with Degen, was among the eight players sent off in the Premier League on Saturday, a record for one day in the top flight.

“We are aware that Fernando has a lot of problems with injury at the moment,” Carragher said. “We have seen what has happened with Steven Gerrard. The manager and the physios know that the longer Fernando stays on the pitch, the more chance there is of him getting further injured.

“If Fernando’s injury had got worse at the end then we would have virtually no one for Wednesday.”

Benítez said: “The question is, if you don’t play Torres from the beginning, you will be talking about why he is not playing, so it’s a difficult decision.

“We decided to start with him because he can do a proper warm-up but, after, we knew we needed to take him out at certain moments.”

Benítez’s job is understood to be secure as Liverpool’s owners acknowledge that the manager is battling a debilitating injury list that has been a significant contributing factor to his five Premier League defeats this season. Benítez, though, will not accept that those losses represent a fatal blow to his title hopes.

Asked if he would reconsider his future after the Fulham game, Benítez replied: “My future is against Lyons.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article6898899.ece

YIKES!

PHootieD · Nov 1, 2009

Our CL Roster (from uefa.com):
Keepers: Reina Cavs (virus?), Hansen
Backs: Johnson (calf) , Agger (virus?), Aurelio (virus?), Kyrgiakos, Insua, Carra, Darby, Kelly (ankle), Dossena, Skrtel(virus?)
MF: Aquilani (virus) Gerrard (groin) Lucas Masch Riera (hammy) Benayoun, Spearing, Plessis, Eccleston
Forwards Torres Voronin (blind) Kuyt Babel (lobotomy) Ngog(virus?) Amoo

so if all of those guys are out we've only got 18 fit and eligible players.

Reina
Darby--Carra--Kyrgiakos--Insua
Benayoun--Masch--Lucas--Babel
Kuyt--Torres

Bench: Hansen, Dossena, Spearing, Plessis, Eccelston Voronin, Amoo

The back line and bench don't inspire much confidence. If we're behind and need subs we might be seeing Amoo and/or Eccleston

AussieLFCfan · Nov 2, 2009

In.

If we lose this game we can basically kiss this comp goodbye one would think. Massive game. With our recent run of form I can't see us getting full points here.

Hope we can surprise a few people as we did against United.......

Grinners89 · Nov 2, 2009

This injury list is really depressing me.

Agger had a back injury, not the flu, and Skrtel has a thigh injury, not the flu.

Cav - virus
Johnson - calf
Skrtel - thigh
Agger - back
Aurelio - virus
Kelly - ankle
Lucas - virus
Aquilani - virus
Gerrard - groin
Riera - hamstring
El Zhar - knee
Torres - groin
Ngog - virus

Thats a good team.

Cavalieri
Kelly - Skrtel - Agger
Johnson - Lucas - Aquilani - Aurelio
Gerrard - Riera
Torres

Subs: El Zhar, Ngog

We are seriously looking at playing one of the weakest sides seen since Rafa has been here.

Reina
Darby - Carra - Kyrgiakos - Insua
Lucas - Masch
Babel - Benayoun - Dossena
Kuyt

Subs: Gulacsi, Ayala, Plessis, Spearing, Amoo, Voronin, Eccleston

I just cant imagine how bad this could be. Lucas, Masch, Yossi and Kuyt will need to be f***ing outstanding to help us win this.

Red Bird · Nov 2, 2009

Re: Lyon vs Liverpool - CL - 4th November [R]

newterp said: ↑

if Gerrard is not fit again - 2 full weeks + 1 day later then we need someone other than Torres to stand up and be counted....

This is essentially a repeat of Marseille 2 seasons ago but it comes in game 4 instead of game 6.
Click to expand...

The yanks must have told him that defeat in the champions league was not palatable ... hence the cutting of his loses at Fulham.

I think not enough players have stood up to be counted most of the time, so far. I have a feeling that Benitez, much as against Reading a couple of years ago, gave up and saved his big guns for another day.

liverbird · Nov 2, 2009

Well Liverpool Football team is playing a game so I am in. Who knows what may happen

BenZ76.O.L · Nov 2, 2009

mmmm, these reporters work for the Times and they don't even know how to spell Lyon, pathetic. lol

newterp · Nov 2, 2009

Grinners89 said: ↑

This injury list is really depressing me.

Agger had a back injury, not the flu, and Skrtel has a thigh injury, not the flu.

Cav - virus
Johnson - calf
Skrtel - thigh
Agger - back
Aurelio - virus
Kelly - ankle
Lucas - virus
Aquilani - virus
Gerrard - groin
Riera - hamstring
El Zhar - knee
Torres - groin
Ngog - virus

Thats a good team.

Cavalieri
Kelly - Skrtel - Agger
Johnson - Lucas - Aquilani - Aurelio
Gerrard - Riera
Torres

Subs: El Zhar, Ngog

We are seriously looking at playing one of the weakest sides seen since Rafa has been here.

Reina
Darby - Carra - Kyrgiakos - Insua
Lucas - Masch
Babel - Benayoun - Dossena
Kuyt

Subs: Gulacsi, Ayala, Plessis, Spearing, Amoo, Voronin, Eccleston

I just cant imagine how bad this could be. Lucas, Masch, Yossi and Kuyt will need to be f***ing outstanding to help us win this.
Click to expand...

Agger injured his back AGAIN??? I thought the surgery was supposed to fix that. Oh well - I apologize to whoever said it several weeks ago that we souldn't count on him staying fit.

That said - I hope its just stiffness from having played 5 games in a row after not playing for ages.

This is ridiculous.

liverbird · Nov 2, 2009

How I feel going into this match

Red Bird · Nov 2, 2009

liverbird said: ↑

Well Liverpool Football team is playing a game so I am in. Who knows what may happen
Click to expand...

Backs to the wall? Everybody and their bookie writing us off? What the bloody hell are we waiting for

poopoobigelow · Nov 2, 2009

after the smoke clears, and the 'last minute fitness calls' are made from the belichick-esque probables list... i anticipate lining up like this:

reina
johnson... carra... agger... insua
masch... lucas
yossi... kuyt... aurelio
torres...

cav, aquilani, ayala, babel, ngog, dossena, voronin

just my feeling and inferences from the rafa-speak going on... and, at this point, the virus sufferers and those with minor knocks have two more days to recover...

usscouse · Nov 2, 2009

A little depressing innitt?
It's a must win or I'm afraid that we won't make it to the eliminations this time around. We have to play it like a cup final...again.
Either Grinner's or Poo's team 'can' win this, they need motivation and determination to do it.

We already have the trolls and media making the most of our dificulties, we don't want to give them more fuel. DON"T anyone get sucked into that Sack Rafa thread that one arseholoe has started. That's just what they want
edit: Never mind. Well done mods..

Nice opener Grinners, I hope the team can respond the way they should.

ULL NEVER WALK ALONE · Nov 2, 2009

I just pray we win this game, no matter who plays.

LiverMorgh · Nov 2, 2009

Re: Lyon vs Liverpool - CL - 4th November [R]

Grinners89 said: ↑

Comparing what Ive seen so far this season (except for the Man Utd match) to the quotes from Emlyn Hughes, Paisley et al...it makes me really sad because I just cant see the same desire in a lot of our players. Im not talking about just the fringe players like Voronin, but some of our senior players have not been good enough in every aspect.

I can only hope it all changes. Now its up to the players.
Click to expand...

I think it has to do with something Pepe Reina talked about earlier in the season when he "wrote off our chances" - he didn't but it was the article that claimed as such. I think it was with Guillem. I think the players are a bit disappointed and down-hearted having to realise that no matter how they do they won't be on equal footing with the Uniteds, Chelseas and Citys of the world who can just spend and overtake all their effort.

edit: Here it is: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/12/pepe-reina-liverpool-premier-league-challenge