Liverpool v. Newcastle [R]

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by liverbird, Dec 18, 2005.

  1. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    I think it's no small coincidence that two of our most dominating performances this season have come with that lineup; it's easily our most versatile.
     
  2. Suss

    Suss Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Right. It was the same exact eleven that played against Wigan. We played with 6 attacking players who are good with the ball and keeping possesion. Its really fun to watch.

    I used to argue for Cisse to be in the team, but Morientes and Crouch are in great form right now. Even when they are not scoring goals, they are creating them for the likes of Gerrard and Garcia.

    Kewell is getting better, but there is still something missing IMO. There is still plenty of room for improvement.

    Just about everything is working for Liverpool at the moment. I can't wait for the derby.
     
  3. liverbird

    liverbird BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 29, 2000
    Mars
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And those are our best two way fullbacks as well. I don't want to say I told you so, but.... when Red Bird worried about Mikie, I wrote that the cartoon army had a miserable midfield that we would run right over, and that he'd starve for service. That's what we did. Having seen two games in person this month, our midfield is working like clock work. It is a joy to watch.

    I will assert also that Morientes should be playing as much as possible. He is a vital linking player. He tracks back to get the ball, moves well without the ball to open space for others, and lays the ball off very smoothly for all those around him. He also adds a defensive presence.

    Our clean sheets start from very hard defensive pressure from both forwards. Combined with a GREAT midfield, our defenders have so much help that they simply need to play smart and the clean sheets will follow. As pointed out above, we have allowed 4 goals in the 15 non-chelski league matches we've played. That is about .3 goals a game. You'll not lose many games that way. Actually, if you take out Fulham as well, it is 2 goals in 14 games.

    And now the goals are coming as well. It is fun to watch LFC play. Imagine what we'll be like when Rafa is satisfied with how we are playing!!

    "with a liver bird upon their chest,
    they are men of Rafa's best,
    and the team that plays the Liverpool way,
    could win a championship some May"
     
  4. ForeverRed

    ForeverRed Member+

    Aug 18, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I'm glad this line up is working but do you guys really think playing Cisse instead of Morientes will make us underperform? Not a chance. Plus, Cisse is a much more versatile player than Morientes.

    I know Rafa won't completely abandon Cisse, but I'm wonder how the hell it got to the point where we have to say "dont worry he'll get his chance" because personally, he has proved himself time and time again and was consistent over a longer period of time than Fernando.
     
  5. catenaccio_L'pool

    Oct 21, 2005
    Top Of The Table
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Another great game...the guys are bordering on phenomenal in the EPL...we just have to control ourselves better...we could have lost Crouch today for the push, but on the other hand, I suspect that his reaction gave ref the courage to show red...
    if only chelsea had lost 2 pts vs Fulham like they should have with that clear penalty on Terry that was not called...lots of hand ball controversy in the league today
     
  6. ULL NEVER WALK ALONE

    Sep 29, 2004
    Chile
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Well,morientes has been brilliant for me in these last couple of EPL games,and unless moros is injured,he deserves to be in the side.I have noticed a massive improvement from cisse over these last couple of weeks,but moro and crouch have been so good together that we realy cant afford to drop any of them right now.

    We are playing SOOO well,that the poor game by garcia and kewell didnt afect us much.Gerrard and moro were awesome today,and crouch has another goal to his name.Things are looking good for us at the moment,and im realy confident we will have a good year.We can surely make it all the way in the C.L again,becasue we realy look like having a very solid squad at the moment.
     
  7. ChelseaSmile

    ChelseaSmile New Member

    Apr 20, 2005
    Birmingham
    Im going to have to disagree with you guys who think Cisse should be starting over Morientes or Crouch. Cisse is intolerable: All legs, no wits. Crouch and Morientes are not only capable of scoring goals, but also set up our midfielders up to shoot and to hit in crosses(which is how our two goals were scored today). Crouch and Morientes fit much better into Benitez's system and are much better overall players. Speed is overrated anyway.
     
  8. ForeverRed

    ForeverRed Member+

    Aug 18, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    That's not true, if you look at the last couple of games that Cisse was fortunate enough to receive a couple of minutes from Rafa towards the end of the game, he displayed a nice degree of unselfishness.

    Trust me, I'm an advocate of going allong with any system that works but playing cisse does not mean a failing system. When he has played he has been productive, thats why the sudden drop to the bench was so surprising.
     
  9. toon_soldier_86

    toon_soldier_86 New Member

    Jul 21, 2005
    THE BAY
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Northern Ireland
    during last years champs. league i was a big fan for l'pool.

    i actualy got to see owen play at the real madrid v. la galaxy, he was supurb and has been my favorite player for a couple of years now.

    although i have only been wathching the epl for 2 years i have seen and read about what owen did at anfield.

    i lost some respect for your fans that decited to jeer owen :( , benitez DIDNT WANT OWEN!!!!! he had his chance and it is rediculuts to say owen whould snuf L'pool is nonsence.

    gerrard was right when he stud up for owen.

    Suss55 you are a peice of work, before you start blowing your own horn look at the table, mabe the champions leage wont be so easy.
     
  10. ThunderZtorm

    ThunderZtorm New Member

    Jun 28, 2004
    Denmark

    As far as I recall Liverpool won the CL last season without being anywhere near the level of consistency the team is hitting right now. In all senses, Liverpool is a better team than last year - why should it not be possible to win it again?

    Benitez DID want Owen - just not at the price Real wanted for him.
     
  11. Steven_W

    Steven_W New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    Sydney
    I think Real would've accepted something in the region of 7 to 8 million pounds, thats probably the limit to what we were gonna offer. Until Fat Freddy offered them a totally ridiculous amount.
     
  12. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Sorry, but that's absurd.
     
  13. liverbird

    liverbird BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 29, 2000
    Mars
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess he was lucky to avoid a card when he "stud up" ;)
     
  14. Liverpool_SC

    Liverpool_SC Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    Upstate, SC
    I agree. Nando does not have the pace that Cisse has, but he is far more productive in different parts of the pitch. He and Crouch are both excellent linking players and Nando is great at dropping into midfield and flicking balls on for on-rushing midfielders to start the counterattack. His ability to control the ball (first touch and close control) is much better than Cisse's. His aerial ability (whether putting shots on goal or winning and cushioning balls for other attackers) is far greater than Cisse's.

    Cisse strikes the ball a bit better (on free kicks) and has more pace. But his touch too often lets him down. Cisse can be effective carrying the ball out to wide positions and breaking down a defender before putting in a cross or shot. But even when he passes the ball accurately, Cisse is not as good as Nando at hitting his man in stride, on the right foot, with the touch, etc necessary to make it a silver platter type chance. And lately, Nando has been making better runs (beating men with the ball) right through the heart of the field.

    Once Nando gets his finishing dialed in a bit more and further cultivates his partnership with Crouch, I think that he is going to start scoring more goals. He is showing a great ability to mold his game to suit his teammates.
     
  15. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    We need Cisse, period. Now, that doesn't mean he has to be in Rafa's first choice eleven, but we're going to need him for two reasons:

    -We can't rule out the possibility of injuries. If we learned anything last season, it's that you need depth at every position, and we won't be able to subsist by counting on two main strikers to carry the heavy workload we're going to have (I assume that we all want deep runs in the CL and FA Cup). The last thing we want is to be forced to play a 4-5-1, in which case Cisse is probably the best choice up top, like we were at some points last year.

    -Cisse is an entirely different player than Crouch or Morientes. Now, obviously, his game has some faults, and I think everyone has done an excellent job of pointing those faults out. But, believe it or not, when in form he can score goals, and he's easily the fastest player on the team. At some point, we're going to need someone that plays with his style to win a match. If anything, we need him as a tactical sub.

    Now, I realize that lots of you think he's total crap, but he's not, and if we did let go of him, we'd probably be digging our own grave as far as success this season. Unless we sold him and immediately bought a new striker with that money, we need him to go anywhere this season..
     
  16. Liverpool_SC

    Liverpool_SC Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    Upstate, SC
    Don't overreact. I was just responding to the post comparing Nando to Cisse.

    I wouldn't mind Cisse at all if he was not so expensive. He has his merits. He has been more effective (especially on a per minute basis) than Milan was last season.

    It just hurts that FSP provides 90% of the benefit that Cisse does and cost about 1/10 as much. If Cisse can ever learn how to time his runs to Crouch's knockdowns and lay-backs, he could score 40 goals a season. Especially the way he strikes the ball.

    But he doesn't seem to be growing much. It is a shame that a guy with so much physical talent is just so one-dimensional.
     
  17. TruReds

    TruReds New Member

    Jun 12, 2004
    KL
    At this rate, all our strikers are dispensable.
     
  18. ghazi

    ghazi Member

    Feb 27, 2004
    Chicago
    And yet people contiue to question whether we can win the Champs LEague again. Audacity.

    This team has truly transformed in Rafa's second season. With more player familiarity, consistent lineups and a healthy squad, this team has essentially dominated the vast majority of opponents it played this season. The statistics are remarkable when you compare shots on goal for and against.

    Had we been more efficient in front of the net, we could easily be on pace with Chelski. I truly believe that.
     
  19. Suss

    Suss Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Get your facts straight. Owen was the one who wanted to leave the club. He had countless opportunities to sign a new contract, but he didn't think he could win things at Liverpool. So he went to Real Madrid, where he won nothing, while we won the biggest trophy in Europe. Now he is at Newcastle were he really has no chance of winning anything. Owen made a huge mistake. I don't think he deserved to be booed, but I could understand that view. Stop trying to make out Micheal Owen to be innocent in all this. It was mainly his fault that he is not playing for Liverpool at the moment. However, I would love to see him return to Liverpool.
     
  20. Liverpool_SC

    Liverpool_SC Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    Upstate, SC
    It is also disgusting that Michael Owen did not cooperate with Liverpool to get a bigger fee from Real Madrid AND subsequently did not cooperate with Liverpool to get his fee reduced when Real Madrid had the gall to try to pawn him back for double the asking price the year before.

    If Michael Owen was truly about Liverpool and loved the squad, he could easily have asked for language in his RM contract that would have given Liverpool the option to purchase him back from RM at the sale price or the sale price plus some small mark-up. This is exactly what Everton did with Gravesen when they moved him to RM.

    I believe that Michael Owen was mainly the victim of his agent in this entire saga. But a little intelligence and character would have gone a long way to ensuring he was truly an option for Rafa Benitez. Owen did little to encourage Benitez that he could count on him when Rafa first arrived - and the many decisions that Owen made in the protracted sale and relative failure at Real Madrid made it rather dubious to expect the club or its fans would simply welcome him back with open arms.

    Was he really expecting Liverpool would pay 2x what they sold him for a year earlier, after a relatively medicore season and when we would likely have to assume a contract that paid him a ton more than we had paid him? Subsequently, when he moved on to another Premier League club, should he expect us to give him tons of love? How much love would we have given StevieG if he had moved to Chelsea? Not so much.

    Liverpool fans privately very much appreciate Michael Owen's service for the club. And many would probably tell you that they feel some bemused pity for his little nomadic journey since he left the club. By far most would not be galled if he did pull on a red shirt again some time in the future. But hardly anyone would tell you that he is just some innocent abroad who ought to be gratified and welcomed back on any terms.
     
  21. AwayKit

    AwayKit Member

    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Agreed. This is very well said.

    The reception may have been a message, and should at least be a warning to other Anfiled heroes who may consider the lure of "bigger clubs" ;)
     
  22. Red Bird

    Red Bird Member+

    Sep 30, 2003
    Oxford
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Aye, that you did say. Clockwork does describe the midfield. Again, shame on me :eek:
     
  23. Red Bird

    Red Bird Member+

    Sep 30, 2003
    Oxford
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Oh dear, is that all it takes for you to lose respect? Still, you did say you've only been watching the EPL for two years, so I guess there is quite a bit for you to learn. About both football and economics.
     
  24. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    I'd say spelling first.
     
  25. toon_soldier_86

    toon_soldier_86 New Member

    Jul 21, 2005
    THE BAY
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Northern Ireland

    i agree that i have a lot to learn, and i respect and understand what you guys are trying to say, ;)
    i agree with some of it and still feel that it wasnt right for the boos...
     

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