Liberal Democrats: It's time for your Civil War

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by riverplate, Dec 5, 2004.

  1. Calexico77

    Calexico77 Member

    Sep 19, 2003
    Mid-City LA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was thinking that it was not so much the economy, as the economic infrastructure of our cities.

    I love how blind and holy-than-thou people get after they've had some success. It's a bad argument. It follows no logic, it ignores the facts, it's insulting to people who consider themselves Democrats. It's just another sad ploy to break apart America. Divide and conquer in its truest form.

    The Democrats are off only by a little. For all of George's faults, he's comes off as a nice, moral guy, and he has a bunch of pit vipers making sure that everyone sees him that way. The Democrats just need to find someone with strong leadership qualities, the way Clinton was.
     
  2. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's a nationally known Democrat of note from Ohio?
     
  3. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, some people have heard of Dennis Kucinich. ;)
     
  4. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    "Jerry, Jerry" ;) (Seriously, though, former hostage Terry Anderson is nationally known, admittedly not for a political career. He recently was defeated in a race for the Ohio State Senate that would be described as contentious. And no, I'm not suggesting him as a vice-presidential candidate.)
     
  5. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't forget Jerry Springer!
     
  6. flowergirl

    flowergirl Member+

    Aug 11, 2004
    panama city, FL
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we're all still waiting for an actual rebuttal that would incriminate him...
     
  7. Chizzy

    Chizzy Member+

    She/Her
    United States
    Aug 7, 2003
    Upper Left, USA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    now the whole south can secede from the union.
     
  8. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Like that will ever happen. Don't forget that Attacking Minded has admitted on this very forum to being an AI application written by the Bush Administration, using technology obtained through their secret deal with the flesh-eating aliens of Vexon III. Just use the search feature - it's there for all to see. He also said he likes eating baby kittens. And disco.
     
  9. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    In that post he asks if I'm a "landed white male" and in subsequent posts he refers to "folks like you". People who speak that way are bigots. Mel is a bigot. The fact that you see nothing wrong with accusing someone (falsely) of being a "landed white male" and talking about "folks like you" means you are either ignorant or a bigot. Then again maybe you both ignorant and a bigot.
     
  10. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    [​IMG]
     
  11. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    It's about time we enact legislation protecting landed white males!
     
  12. christopher d

    christopher d New Member

    Jun 11, 2002
    Weehawken, NJ
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BenReilly again.
     
  13. flowergirl

    flowergirl Member+

    Aug 11, 2004
    panama city, FL
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Try again sugar. He ASKS if you are a landed white male, he doesn't "accuse" you. And in is subsequent posts, is he referring to white folks? or other ethnic folks? does the word "folks" imply bigotry? i must have missed that day in school....
    you're gonna have to do better than that. sorry.

    (and yes, everyone, i realize this is a losing battle, but it is kind of fun. :) )
     
  14. flowergirl

    flowergirl Member+

    Aug 11, 2004
    panama city, FL
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I'm so tired of people accusing me of being white. I'm very offended. I think Mel owes us some reparations. ;)
     
  15. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Let's be clear; only two mindsets are allowed from this reasoning.

    (1) We understand all we need to understand about what's going on out there in the world regarding threats like what we've been told AQ is, BECAUSE we've been told already, and we should believe what we're told.

    (2) We don't need to understand or come to any fullness of knowledge about anything; we've got the biggest stick, all we need do is use it, and you can call the ass-whipping whatever you want.


    Number (2) is also known as the Chris Rock defense.

    Person #1: Hey man, what's Al Qaeda?

    AM: Aww, man I don't know that sh!t! Keeping it REAL...You think you're smart huh? Tell me this: can you kick BUSH'S ass? That's all I want to know. Can you? Well what the Fvck good is all that KNOWIN' then, if you can't kick ass?


    :rolleyes: x (the admittedly easily found and exploited comedic frames of this issue that would allow me to go on and freaking on, for days, casting this thinking in its appropriate light, were I to choose to do so) - (my weariness not only at your discredited thnking, but at your person as it is projected by you online)...

    To me, those are the only reasons why you would rail against a thread, a process, and effort or any other endeavour centered upon trying to know more; either you think that what you've been told is perfectly and completely accurate (and, worse, you MUST therefore think that, given the track record of government and the mass media, that they have a trsutworthy HISTORY of telling you the whole truth and nothing but, which is even more pathetic), or you think that really, completely understanding what it is that's going on, or the efforts in that direction, are a waste of time because knowing changes nothing, in your frame of what "something" IS.

    Either way, how...crippling a life led like that must be. How...debilitating. I honestly feel nothing but pity for you, and for those like you, who LOVE to NOT know.

    You go keep it real now.
     
  16. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And oh yeah, I was also going to say that you'll probably have to KEEP waiting. When a person LOVES to NOT know, they can't answer a question like that. Well, they can't answer it with anything other than a tangential attempt at a personal attack that amongtheir friends must somehow signify effective debate. Of course, among the humans, it's recognised for what it is.

    LOVING to NOT know, in that Thrasymachus sort of way.
     
  17. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Didn't Kerry outpoll Bush on the question of who would be more effective in the war on terrorism? Yes. Yes, he did.
     
  18. DoctorJones24

    DoctorJones24 Member

    Aug 26, 1999
    OH
    Neg rep delivered. (I assume that this was a plea for some, no?)
     
  19. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    Hey, I fix one, I just have to fix another.
     
  20. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
  21. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    OK, so trying to understand your enemy is soft?

    Do NFL coaches and scouts study video of next week's opponent? Do they try to get inside the head and plans of their rivals? Or do they base their analysis on highlight reels from Sportscenter? Do coaches tell newspapers that "the cowboys hate our freedom to run the ball?"

    Was it Sun Tzu who said "know your enemy", or was he just some stupid Chicom?

    Or hey, we could do it your way and blindly lash out without knowing what will hurt most. It's worked so well so far.
     
  22. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I told you; it's either the "Fox News told us what the situation is, there's no FURTHER understanding needed," or it's the Chris Rock thing, where idiots LOVE to NOT KNOW, and love to distill everything down to "might MAKES right, so what do I need to UNDERSTAND, about anything?"

    When I occasionally delve into that place where I sometimes think that BushCorp are honest, hardworking folks just caught up in a bad situation, the above the BEST I can do in terms of characterising their post 9/11 behaviour.

    That is to say, when I give tem every moral and traditional benefit of the doubt I can MUSTER, I still am left with looking at the reality of what they've done in the post 9/11 era, and seeing it, AT BEST, as blindly lashing out, hoping that, being so powerful, that all it will take is to connect one time to end this fight.

    Most of the time though, I remember who these folks are, and the characterisations of their behaviour since that fateful day is best seen, best predicted, in their behaviour BEFORE 9/11.
     
  23. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    Asking people if they fit your stereotypes is a sure sign of bigotry. If not then let's have some fun: Just because you're a woman doesn’t mean you have to be stupid or did you just get of the plantation yesterday?
     
  24. CosmosKramer

    CosmosKramer Member

    Sep 24, 2000
    Yokohama
    Club:
    Yokohama F Marinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Problem is, the Democratic bigwigs are listening to them:

    http://www.nypress.com/17/48/news&columns/taibbi.cfm

    What From, Marshall and the other DLC speakers were doing last week was not just ruminating out loud about the need to shy away from certain demonized liberal icons. They were, instead, announcing their willingness to embrace the other side's tactic—I hate to lean on this overused word, but it is a McCarthyite tactic—of branding certain individuals as traitors and anti-Americans. What they were doing was sending up a trial balloon, to see if anyone noticed this chilling affirmative shift in strategy and tactics.

    Well, I noticed. I also noticed that unless something is done about it, this unelected bund of corporate pawns is once again going to end up writing the party platform and arranging things to make sure that no antiwar candidate is allowed to compete for votes in the primaries. It will push one of its own—probably Harold Ickes, or Brazile—in next year's election for the chairman of the Democratic Party. And when that person wins, the tens of millions of Democrats who opposed the war will have to get used to people like Will Marshall referring to them as "we" in front of roomfuls of reporters—Marshall, who this year wrote, in Blueprint, an article entitled "Stay and Win in Iraq" that offered the following view of the progress of the war:

    "Coalition forces still face daily attacks but the body count tilts massively in their favor."


    Also, this is as good a place as any to post this:

    http://indyweek.com/durham/2004-11-17/news.html

    That's not a position gap; that's an ideological gash. And it's not going to heal, because, unlike you expedient professional truth-manipulators, I'm not prepared to meet the enemies of freedom halfway just because you lost the election. Your speechwriters might see the Bush administration's failings as nothing more than convenient fodder for your campaign blather, but the GOP junta's sins don't go away just because decrying them no longer serves your ambitions. Last week they were the imperialist pigs who misled us into war and you were the savior. Now we're the goddamn Getalong Gang?! Screw that. Fight back or shut up.
     
  25. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's no doubt that the Dem leadership as manifested by the DLC and others like them are looking at the success of Rove - as well as the success of New Labour in the UK taking the economic and crime packages right out from under the feet of the Tories by becoming more right-wing on those issues - and trying to become him without losing their soul, or, more accurately, their base.

    GNN provides a different take on the success or failure of "Rove-mimic":

    ...Shoob: The winner of the election was the one successful in portraying themselves as the party that achieved the moral high ground. The Democrats could’ve done this very easily if they’d claimed from the start that the war was immoral and illegal – that people had been lied to – that it was a violation of the Geneva Convention.

    Scheff: But they didn’t. The Democratic leadership all supported the war – Kerry, Clinton, Feinstein, Biden, Lieberman – they all voted for it.

    Shoob: The Democrats think victory is in the middle. They think that if some Americans support the war, the party has to lean to the right. Victory, I think we’ve discovered, is not in the middle.
     

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