One thing I would say about Ooijer: He has got the crappiest shot in the team. Seriously. He boots it over the bar EVERY TIME. Lee, Bouma and Alex have all got better shots. But I guess it doesn't matter so much since he plays in defence usually.
This is quite funny. All of us I presume would like to see our players be as successful as possible, correct? Doesn't this mean playing in at the highest level that you are capable of, and earning somewhere close to your earning power? Someone said that the French league is no better than the Dutch. The French League is much more competitive, and let's be honest - PSV were lucky to get to advance past Lyon. Now, I don't think we have any measure of certainty that Lee will go to Monaco, and perhaps Monaco are merely the ones most interested in him, and the ones most actively pursuing and negotiating. But supposing Lee does go there, let's think about this more rationally. If you were in his shoes, what would prevent you from leaving? He's already lost his best friend Park. And the team has lost two of their best players, and both play key defensive and midfield roles, where he is playing. And the one who helps Lee the most on the pitch and has the most experience, namely Cocu, will retire after next year. It is not easy for a player when your team has no continuity. Every year your best players leave, so every year, you have to begin from square one. And Eindhoven, is a backwater compared to Monaco. So many of you are saying he should stay, but I haven't heard many reasons why you think so. So, please tell, what would make you decide for staying at PSV? Certainly not the weather! I know that most of you will tell me Hiddink. But if you're playing all the time for the same coach, you're going to get stale and you're going to lose some creative zest and imagination, no matter how great this coach is. Having experience with other styles of play and other leagues would do Lee a lot of good, and this in turn will benefit the National team. The French League will offer new challenges for Lee. There are many African players there, and they generally have a good combination of strength and speed. So, it's not the same as staying in Holland. And remember, the only mobility that PSV will probably experience in the next few years is downward, because they've reached practically the highest heights imaginable this year. (On the contrary, it is not often that Monaco does as poorly as they did this past year, but they still managed to come 3rd in Ligue 1.) PSV was very lucky to be able to get Cocu this past year. And I would say that they most probably would not have made it past the round of 16 of Champions League if they would have even made it out of the group stage, and maybe wouldn't have even won the Dutch title without him. So, if Lee waits even one more year, his stock and profile are likely to wane. Lee's stock is very high right now, because everybody saw him play well in the Champions League. But it's difficult to shine when your team is rebuilding every year. So, it's either now or never for Lee, and he realizes this. If I had to describe Lee in one word it would be "winner"; because he has been a success and his team has been a success every where he has gone: Anyang, KNT, PSV. I don't expect this to change if he goes to another club.
His kicks need a little work, but he is very good in the air. On dead ball situations, it's set up for either Alex, VoH, or Ooijer.
well...just look at it. it's a gorgeous structure that conjures up all the history of european royalty. it's a symbol of monaco itself. without it, what would monaco be today? when you think of monaco, what do you think of? doesn't just seem like an exciting and beautiful place to be? plus, the football club is damn good. haha.
Sebastien Coe: well IMHO, it's not so much that Ligue 1 is better than the Eredivisie (which it IS) but if he goes now, it's all about the money. you are saying that Eindhoven is backwater compared to Monaco. it is, but not in terms of Football. who cares about the city? for Lee it's all about the football and his career (and getting top dollar). he would be going to a similar situation. Monaco, also reached its pinnacle in the CL 2 seasons ago. as a result, they have lost some key players as well. the fact that they are rebuilding, is exactly the reason why they want Lee in the first place. and as far as PSV goes, with Lucius and Ibbey in the midfield and Cocu quarterbacking, and Farfan, VoH, Robert or Simons, they will not lose that much (Ibbey and Robert look prime to explode). with LYP staying put, the back 4 will be PSV's staple again and because of his exisiting chemistry with his teammates (which is excellent - he is one of the boyz), i can't see how he would not be able to showcase himself for his final yr in Holland. at that point Cocu's retirement becomes moot, cuz they both would have one season left. Park's departure is also irrelevant. Lee is well adjusted in Holland - he only has to worry about Football now. if he were to go to Monaco, he'd have to deal with a new language, new teammates and he would probably need 1/2 a season to get well adjusted. so both teams have an equal shot at finishing top 3 in their domestic league and also an equal shot of advancing in group stage CL play. and then depending on the length and terms of his contract @ Monaco, he could get pinned there and his dreams of EPL or La Liga are over. Hiddink as well is irrelevant. LYP don't owe Guus shite at present. he's paid him back and then some. both he and Park have made Guus look like a Genius. and contrary to Park, Lee played solid from the get go. so IMO, it's all about the money. he doesn't gain anything football wise. i would like to see him stay and in doing so, as many Dutch fans have said, he would also cement himself in PSV hearts and lore. my 2 cents.
well, when London won the Olympic bid, he was on their OC (was he the head of it? not sure) and he was in the news a lot. plus i was a fan.
Awesome argument, Kanuck. I also think a move to monaco would be a bad idea. At Lee's age, this move is probably his last big one. He could move onto somewhere else after Monaco, but why the hell would you go to monaco if you know you want to move somewhere else (i.e. EPL!)? Plus, by the time he would move on from monaco, he would be even older, which makes it even more difficult to get into EPL. I don't think it would be wise to move around frequently. Also, Monaco is on the same level as PSV in Europe. Better if he stays in PSV so he gets the same CL experience without having to adjust to a new team and country. My point is not that he should stay at PSV but just that Monaco is a bad move. A move to the EPL now would be a very good move because he really is at his prime now. He said he ultimately wants to play there (rather than spain or italy). There he could get a 4 year contract or something and try to get into CL with the team. He would probably get paid better in England than in France (definately better than at PSV). England is the richest league, after all. EPL is what he wants, and he won't get it if he goes to Monaco.
Exactly Nam.C You want to go to EPL but youre going to settle for Monaco and hope for the best? Not to mention you have to familiarize yourself with unfamiliar surroundings allover again to do this? Christ it took him 2 years just to adjust to Holland. I know I wasnt goin to say anything on the matter but he had a good thing going with PSV and eyes were already on him!
Very good. The best of all time are Seb and Geb. You know who Geb is, right? Some good points, but let's explore this deeper. Lee is definitely not earning anywhere remotely close to top dollar right now, though I am not sure about the exact figure. Anyone know? Sorry for going out on a limb, but I think he would be more than happy with any amount about in the 1.5 to 2 million Euro range, which is a very reasonable expectation considering his value to the club, his profitability for the club, and given that he is playing in Holland. But evidently, PSV couldn't meet his expectations. I would speculate that his current salary is similar to what Song got at Feyenoord, which is about 400,000 Euro/year. If this is around the ball park figure, then I would guess that in one year at Monaco, he could make more than he has in two and a half seasons at PSV. And this is no small consideration, if you have family; you're in the later half of your career; and you've made so many sacrifices to live abroad apart from your loved ones. Every second tier club is going to rebuild after they win the CL title of course, but Monaco and other strong French teams don't lose as many players to transfer for a few reasons. First of all their selling prices for their top players are exhorbitantly high. If PSV had Essien, they would likely sell him for well under 10 million Euro. But what does Lyon want for him? About twice this figure, and for a player who has only been impressive for not a long time. If there were a person who had scored 30+ goals in two consecutive seasons, and over 100 goals in four seasons in the French League, do you think that team would part with him for 5 million Euro, as PSV did with Kezman, especially with Chelsea doing the bidding? I would say that Lyon, Monaco, or Marseille would have held out for at least 12 to 15 million. It is simply a case of meeting the budget, as the payroll is many times what the PSV payroll is. Secondly, many of the players at the likes of Lyon, Marseilles, Monaco themselves don't feel the great urgency to leave the team as they do in Holland. Thirdly, there is a stronger attraction to join the team and this is for the obvious reasons of better pay along with tax exemption, better weather, a cosmopolitan city, etc. And believe me any Korean accustomed to living in the big city would probably go mad in Eindhoven. Well, they MIGHT have the same back four, barring the possibility that Alex or Ooijer don't get snatched up, but even if they are around, they will probably be more exposed this year than last, because they have lost three key midfield players. And don't underestimate the defense of Park, who was according to sources, 4th in the whole UEFA in tackles (If anyone can confirm this please tell me the exact source). And you have a Cocu who is thirty-four, and we all saw him getting burned by Shevchenko, and the AZ guys, not to mention the fast Lyon players. Of course the big "IF" is who will be providing cover for the back four, and Simons, Varrynen, Afellay, and Ferreyra are all new to the team and will have to gel very quickly. Well I wouldn't bet on PSV advancing beyond the CL group stage, and if they don't then Lee won't be able to showcase himself on the big stage again. And if PSV's profile goes down, then Lee's will likely fall with it, especially after one year, when he will be just under thirty. Do you think any of the Premier League teams will offer top dollar for him next year, when they apparently didn't this year, his best year, when he could not have performed any better? Doubtful to say the least. Lee has apparently attracted the interest of all the teams that played against him, because he proved himself to them, and he proved what he can do against even the big name stars like Essien, Diarra, Cafu, and so on. But maybe the Premier League clubs are not convinced yet; and they probably wouldn't offer the reported 5 million Euro transfer fee for a defender who is 28, as his agent said a few days ago. The very fact that Lee is now willing to negotiate with a team that he had earlier refused shows me that there are not many offers from Premier League now. If the Premier League teams were going to make an offer, then don't you think they would have by now? There were probably some offers made, but most likely they weren't as attractive as Monaco's. And you're right, Monaco has lost some prestige this year, and they realize that they really need someone like Lee. Wouldn't you want to go where you are desperately needed, hence appreciated? Especially if this team is as persistent to secure your services as Monaco, and are keen to signing you for the long-term, most likely, since Monaco is a rebuilding team? It's one thing to adjust when you arrive at a new team, but quite another because half of your best players have left, year after year. Think about this, in the last two years alone, PSV have lost 7 starters and next year they will lose Cocu along with probably two or three more. And no, Park's departure is not irrelevant, especially if you consider that they often played on the same side of the field, where Lee was making overlapping runs. And losing a player of Park's energy and work-rate will affect the entire team dynamic. From all the reports I read, Lee and Park were like each other's shadow, they did everything together, and went everywhere together. And believe me, this wasn't just to get "adjusted" to Holland, because their rate of assimilation would probably have been even faster if they had to fend for themselves sooner. About Cocu's retirement, well yes and no. As I said earlier, if Lee doesn't go now, there likely won't be better offers next year at 29, especially if PSV doesn't overachieve even more than they did this past year. Agreed, but as of today, those EPL and La Liga dreams are fading fast, and he's likely pinned to PSV unless he takes the best available offer soon, because there isn't likely going to be a better one next year. When you're 28, then you can still get a good long term contract, like Van Bommel. Not when your 29. Many teams probably already consider Lee too old, because when you factor in adjustment time, then he'll be close to thirty when he gets adjusted to his new league, especially if it is a higher level one like Premier League. Let's get realistic, Lee is probably not going to get the big offer from England after this year, especially if there hasn't been one tabled so far. And there seems to be another dynamic at work: apparently there isn't a buy-out clause, so PSV might be trying to price Lee out of the market in the hopes that Lee will renegotiate the long-term offer they made. So, it's being pinned to PSV or to a team that pays better and offers a better lifestyle; which would you chose?
Some of sebcoe's observations make sense. We should consider what's best for LYP. He deserves it, and remember that neither EPL not La Liga is some secret chamber or nirvana. Too much focus on prestige can be damaging. This will sound strange, but I have an analogous situation in my career. I am considering three alternatives: (i) staying where I am (read PSV), (ii) moving to a similar firm for better strategic position and better pay but risk that this may not happen (read Everton/Aston Villa/Newcastle/etc and PSV's asking price) or (iii) moving to a French firm that I never thought I would consider (in some ways a step down) but for a much better strategic position and much better pay and longer term contract and a firm that really wants me (read Monaco). I am leaning toward (iii). Also keep in mind also that LYP's situation is far different from Ahn JH, his contemporary in terms of age. Ahn has to sacrifice cash for a year to restore some legitimacy to his stock. Lee does not. Don't mistake me: I want Lee to go to EPL or La Liga too. Let's see if some EPL team coughs up the transfer fee. What I'm unclear about is this: if Lee stays at PSV another year, I assume PSV cannot ask for a huge transfer fee for him. Easier for him to leave to EPL then. Problem is that he is a year older, with another year of exposure to injury, etc.
That's actually a split opinion. Some football fans view him as a midfield/forward and other view him as a forward. It's not exactly wrong to say he is a striker, just a split opinion that's all. He's not exactly a pure midfielder or playmaker like Beckham. Since Beckham left Man Utd, they never had a solid playmaker. The addition of Park isn't exactly going to help them. The have too many forwards. We'll see how it turns out. I say it's either boom or bust. I hope it turns out well. I would love to see more Chinese/Koreans/Japanese in the EPL.
There have been few people who said La Ligue and Eredivisie are about the same and not much of a difference but i highly disagree. La Ligue has much more balance and is much more competitive. If you watched both leagues, you could tell La Ligue is in much bigger playing level than Eredivisie. I for one think move to Monaco would be good. By the way, who the hell is sebcoe? Is that a dumb question?
Sebcoe has some valid points. Monaco is a better club than PSV if you don't consider his personal circumstances. I think basically the possibilities are like this: 1. EPL club offers 5 mil and Lee goes to EPL now: Best option, but not so likely. 2. Lee finishes his contract with PSV and move to EPL on a free. Then transfer money would not be a problem at all, just a matter of interest from EPL clubs. 29 isn't THAT old for a defender. Considering how good his body conditioning is, he'll be just as good next year physically. 3. Lee thinks he will never make it to EPL and moves to Monaco. This will be ok since French league and Monaco are slightly better than PSV and Eredivisie. But this WON'T be a stepping stone onto EPL. He'll probably finish his career here. Bad thing is that he won't realise his dream of playing in the EPL. 4. Stays in PSV and extends his contract. Finishes career at PSV. Hmm for a player of his quality it will be a shame if this happens. Plus he won't get paid well. But he'll be a PSV Legend! PS. BTW does the French league get 3 CL spots?
FM, what is the reaction among Monaco fans? Are you excited? What do you think is best for Lee, waiting for an offer from EPL, or going to France?
In France, there are not a lot of Monaco fans ... because they are not really french ... but it is better that he goes to a team that let him a starter position ... At Monaco the left back is Patrice Evra or Gaël Givet, 2 internationals french player !