Landon Donovan doesn't get the respect he's earned from U.S. fans on Bigsoccer

Landon Donovan had 3 great games at the 2002 World Cup.
(4, if you really want to stretch it...2, if you don't).

I would never take that away from him.
I think he's a great player, and would argue against anyone underrating him.
I would never even consider rooting against him while he's playing for the US.

But this is the dawn of a new era in the American soccer landscape, and if you think any player that dons the Stars & Stripes (or whatever crap knockoff design Nike decides to strap-on us next year) is immune from criticism on the club fan level, then you probably believe that our chances rest on one player's shoulders...
Just like LannyCakes...

 

True , but I dont just care about winning the WC. Winning it will not greatly improve the popularity of the sport here , as discussed on other threads, but if we can get some big name players that are known to play here in MLS , and bring out crowds and help the MLS improve, that would be better than winning the WC , IMO. Don't get me wrong , I want to bring home the trophy next summer as bad as anyone , but I would also love to see packed soccer specific stadiums for every MLS match , and MLS being a league ranked among the best, producing players for the USMNT.

 

Landon doesn't get the respect because he is an ass. I love his talent and dedication but I still can't stand him. I think all sports fans love arrogance but he for some reason has this irritating amount of it. I think we can all live with his wanting to come back home but don't hail as a savior for soccer like MLS did.

How many players from the Brazilian league play in the national team?
With Brazil it has to do more with player development than with the football league.

I think those who say MLS is the center of the popularity of football in America are wrong. The center of the football universe in America is the world cup. The World Cup is one of the events that brings the fringe fans in not the MLS. The MLS is still too young to have that impact unless we have a young American come through who dominates the league, a person who transcends the sport. Landon has that ability but he in a way is still too private.

 

No it does not, not realistically.You can't dream of being the top paying MLS' salaries.

 

But Bruce was talking about winning the WC. I don't think it adds up. Sure, if you want MLS to be a top US sports league then you want the best players in it. But then the question is: do you want the best players or the best US players? And do you cap your top end by limiting it to the best US players. But if you want the best in the world, you don't have many US players.

I believe in a 2 tiered system. The best should go to the top leagues and make room for the rest. Like in Holland, Brazil, Czech Rep, Sweden, Belgium, Turkey, Switzerland, France, Senegal, Argentina, etc.

 

I think that if we can bring in good players from around the world , and the best US players that are succeeding overseas home , we can develop a strong domestic league , where we can develop top class US players without the whole ''' playing in Europe to become better '' issue, and by making a strong domestic league , it would only lead to more success for the USMNT , as MLS has already shown it is capable of producing quality players for the USA, and MLS' success could then go hand in hand with the USMNT.

 

Not without big time expansion. Look at the slots in MLS. Bring home the best international keepers: KK, Brad, Marcus - that's a quarter of the starting keeper slots. Now look at defenders: Berhalter, Gibbs, Boca, Gooch, Russell, Califf, Dolo, Spector, Simek, Karby, Whitbred, Demerit. That's more than one back per team. Who do you drop of the Gals back 4?

How does it help the USMNT or MLS to have Spector in LA sharing time with Albright instead of fighting for a spot a Charlton. Who do you know that will buy a ticket to see Spector (aside from a couple dozen BS posters.) What did DMB to PSV do to MLS attendance? I mean, they can't even get Adu on the field, why bring Bennie here? I don't get it.

I love MLS. I was a Gals season ticket holder in 96 and was still last year (dropped to a 10 pack this year - kid's playing club and I'm a soccer cabbie) but I'm also a realist. MLS will not be fielding Robbens or Midos or Rossis any time soon, they just won't spend that kind of cash. Why don't you want our best matching the world's best and our most promising fullfilling that promise at home? Mexico is probably the only team outside of the "big 4" who field a mostly domestic WC side - is that what we aspire to?

 

I've been thinking along those lines for quite some time.

Only, it's once we get to the point that many (not all or even most...just many) of our younger players, and most of our YA vets (Freidel, Keller, Lewis, Reyna, etc) feel like it's a good idea to come home for their last few seasons that we (MLS) will have 'done our job'...

Not 'arrived'... Just become what I'd hoped MLS would be...

 

Beyond Germany, Italy, England, Spain, what other WC regulars field a mostly (say all but 3 or 4 players) domestic league side? Mexico, Japan, South Korea ... anyone else come to mind?

 

I wonder what Mexican fans will think of Borgetti's desire to return to Mexico during the transfer period due to a lack of playing time in the EPL? His stated worry is a lack of playing time before the World Cup this summer. Does anyone think this parallels the LD situation? He did stay longer than LD, but then on the flip side, he probably didn't have a mechanism in his contact which would permit him to leave untilt he transfer window opened. Any opinions?

 

The thing is, I heard all those interviews, and I didn't think he felt that anyone owed him anything special. I felt like he just didn't think it was fair that everyone HATED him. There's a big difference there. That's why I would want to see the exact quotes. My recolection was that it was something like "I can understand if they wanted to go after me during the game, but they made it personal."

I hear this a lot too, and I think there are times you can criticise LD for drifting in games, but his "work ethic" has never been a problem. Maybe his focus in some regular season games... but the guy works as hard as anyone off the field to prepare. In this article Gooch talks about how LD was the most serious player in Bradenton:

"Landon was the one who went to bed early," Onyewu said. "He was really focused at that time because he was the only one who was a professional at that age. He had signed with a German club so he had to buckle down and get serious about his career. He was proper. [Beasley] and I played video games, tennis, slept and talked to girls during our free time."

IMO this cuts to the heart of the matter. You either hate LD on a gut level, or you love him. That's why you get all the gay baiting and incest stuff. Most people don't really have concrete reasons for dissing him, although there are some, like sidefootsitter who claim they just dis him because he isn't fulfilling his potential, and then refuse to acknowledge anything good he ever does. The definition of a "big game" is one where LD doesn't play great.

Read this article about a players allegiance to a team. It pretty much sums up why this statement doesn't hold much water.

LD is unlike any other professional athlete on the American scene. He cares more about his personal life than his professional life, and he's unashamed of it. He treats soccer like a job, and recognizes that he has to look out for himself (which SJ fans hate him for). He is confident (maybe to the point of being arrogant), but I have NEVER heard a teamate say anything bad about him, and I have heard many, many of his teamates and former teamates say great things about him (which is another reason why the statement above doesn't hold any water). He went behind the scenes to the US Soccer and helped broker the deal avoiding a player walkout last spring, and never said anything about it to the press.

You can argue about whether or not he should have left BL last spring, but there was nothing illegal or unethical about the way he did it. BL did a deal that they felt was in their best interests based on the circumstances.

It should be noted, however, that his decision to come home was anything but clear-cut. There were many reasons to leave.
1. His coach refused to play him early on (even when he was playing well), and would not tell him what he needed to do to get more playing time.
2. When he finally got the start it was in a horrible situation (down 3-1 going into the home leg) and his coach used him as a scapegoat (in a game where Liverpool scored two early goals and almost the entire BL team quit). You can watch the game here if you sign up for a free trial of "action/video" (you can also go back and watch the first leg)
3. His coach then exiled him to the end of the bench, and gave him no hope for fighting back into the lineup.
4. This was all occuring while he needed to be playing regularly to prep for WC.
5. And the transfer window limited his options (as mentioned earlier)
6. On top of all this, he didn't like Germany and was not a good fit for Bundisliga style of play.
7. And finally, he wanted to be closer to family.

Reasons for staying?
1. If he gets to play again, he should improve against the competition he faced on a regular basis.
2. He would make more money.
3. He would gain the respect of europeans.
4. It would make him a real man (as many here seem to argue)

If you don't understand how the guys head works, you don't like him. If you do understand him, or don't give a crap how his head works, you appreciate what he's done as a soccer player, which is more than any other player of his age in US history.

Sorry for the long post, and sorry if I didn't give all the other posters who made similar points credit for them.

 

Who ever said that MLS salaries will be on the low end of the international scale forever??

 

You have a mental problem.

 

OK, but going against Landon made the Bocanegras of the world better.

 

how the hell does me jokingly calling him a dork cut to the heart of the matter? i said he's a great player but that he probably shouldn't do tv interviews, and you get gay baiting and disrespect from that?

good lord. this is the problem. the die hard "LD can do no wrong" people can't even take a joke.

 

I also remember, someone telling them to shut their mouths, or something of that manner.


The fact is, this thread is about the respect Landon Donovan supposedly deserves, when infact, he doesnt deserve any respect for beating up on Concacaf teams. He definetly would have gained respect had he stayed and fought it out and earned a spot instead of crying about not getting playing time, when it was his own doing. Just like DMB did, like Convey, like other yanks abroad.

Then some say he would have been rusty. But Welcome to the footie world, not everything goes your way. He's not the only one that sat on the bench in Europe, but he is one of the few who took the easy way out, the other person i can remember is Clint Mathis. Maybe he is used to being an automatic starter, and doesnt like the prospect of fighting for his place.

 

well said

 

Brazil's domestic league is not at all weak.Why do you think that? Because they are on FSC less often? They have a chaotic structure but they have teams that can fork out a lot of money for players.Oh yeah. Santos won the World Club Championship, didn't they?

 

Sao Paolo, but, i see what you are getting at.

 

Funny how you love to mention the poor performance vs. Liverpool in the second leg - but you don't mention the good performance vs. Liverpool in the first leg. He had the highest rating of any player on the field - a 2 rating. One other Leverkusen player had a 2; there were about 3 or 4 Liverpool players with a 2. He played so well, all the German sportswriters just penciled him in to the starting lineup from then on. But what happened? He got less playing time. Less. Made no sense. He'd earned a start by then; it made sense to start him and help him and the team get prepared for the 2nd leg by getting used to each other on the field during an actual game...but he got less time. And then played extremely poorly (as did the whole team) and then was relegated to no playing time at all after that.

As far as the clause, when I've got time I'll find you the link. I do believe it was a Leverkusen spokesman who said, shortly after LD came back (or while the whole ordeal was going on) that LD chose to exercise the clause in his contract that allowed him to return.

I think as far as the respect thing, posters are just requesting that the criticisms be fair; those that don't respect him only point out what he's done wrong or how he's played bad. But when he does get something right or plays well - there's no mention at all. Or it's discounted. "Yeah, well, it's only against CONCACAF, big deal." Well, there's other players on the National team, but I don't see them beating up on CONCACAF. As I said before, if LD would have accomplished the exact same things he's accomplished for the national team but had done it while playing somewhere in Europe (or not even playing; sitting on a bench somewhere in Europe) he would be lauded and appreciated for it. And nobody would be saying, "well, it's only CONCACAF."

And as far as IBT's comments and people lauding them....hey, he hated LD when he played for the Earthquakes, so what else is new? As Ghosting has pointed out, his post doesn't hold much water.

And as far as the depression debate, I did read interviews re: the first time LD was in Germany, about how unhappy he was and he couldn't sleep and would be up all night on the internet or there were times when he didn't even want to get out of bed. And I do know that those are all signs of depression. No links, though. Too long ago. And that may not have anything to do with his coming back the second time.

As some other rational poster pointed out - I have a feeling LD will find his way back to Europe and have a successful career; I'm thinking EPL. Won't be a superstar, but a pretty good player. But I just wonder, should he indeed do that, would that then make what he's done so far more legitimate?

 

It is very tough to get playing time in europe....just ask Borghetti.....he can't hardly get a look in at Bolton

 

If you take my quote literally "he let us down", I do have a mental problem. Of course I did not mean this literally. But, I don't have the same respect for LD that I do for Mcbride and DMB.

 

YOu have to wonder what your mind set is if that eveytime you step on the field you are the best player by an order of magnitude. Do you get to a point where you feel you can turn it on and off like a switch?

When you are that much better than everyone else you are measured by Championships and making the players around you better so he gets up for the playoffs.

 

The former doesn't really apply, because NFL Europe is owned and operated by the NFL specifically as a minor league.

The latter people actually do all the time (star in Europe versus role player in the NBA). It happened just this year with a player from Spain. Pau Gasol told him he could play in the NBA, but he chose not to.

 

from mlsnet.com, 2005 scoring chart:

Taylor Twellman - NE 25 17 7
Jaime Moreno - DC 29 16 7
Landon Donovan - LA 22 12 10
Jeff Cunningham - COL 26 12 3
Amado Guevara - MET 26 11 11
Christian Gomez - DC 31 11 9
Herculez Gomez - LA 22 11 2
Carlos Ruiz - DAL 19 11 2
Josh Wolff - KC 22 10 10
Clint Dempsey - NE 26 10 9

if you only read BS posts, you'd think donovan didn't do anything during the regular season. if you give 2 pts for goals and 1 for assists, donovan is second to twellman in pts per game and better than moreno, guevara, and christian gomez (who i picked because people generally regard them as excellent). LD's playoff scoring is better than his regular season scoring, but his regular season scoring/assisting isn't that shabby (1.5 pts per game).