Kasparov v X3D Fritz [R]

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by djwalker, Nov 11, 2003.

  1. djwalker

    djwalker BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 13, 2000
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ahem . . . I know many of you were taping this, so I was sure to put the [R] . . .


    First game a draw.

    Kasparov is not playing a traditional chess set, if you haven't read about this match. He's wearing a VR headset and making moves via joystick.

    X3D Fritz forced a draw by repetition.

    [White "Garry Kasparov"]
    [Black "X3D Fritz"]
    [Result "1/2-1/2"]


    1. Nf3 d5
    2. c4 c6
    3. d4 Nf6
    4. Nc3 e6
    5. e3 Nbd7
    6. Qc2 Bd6
    7. g4 Bb4
    8. Bd2 Qe7
    9. Rg1 Bxc3
    10. Bxc3 Ne4
    11. O-O-O Qf6
    12. Be2 Nxf2
    13. Rdf1 Ne4
    14. Bb4 c5
    15. cxd5 exd5
    16. dxc5 Qe7
    17. Nd4 O-O
    18. Nf5 Qe5
    19. c6 bxc6
    20. Bxf8 Kxf8
    21. Ng3 Ndc5
    22. Nxe4 Nxe4
    23. Bd3 Be6
    24. Bxe4 dxe4
    25. Rf4 Bd5
    26. Qc5+ Kg8
    27. Rgf1 Rb8
    28. R1f2 Qc7
    29. Rc2 Qd7
    30. h4 Qd8
    31. g5 Bxa2
    32. Rxe4 Qd3
    33. Rd4 Qxe3+
    34. Rcd2 Qe1+
    35. Rd1 Qe3+
    36. R1d2 Qg1+
    37. Rd1 {The game is drawn.}
    1/2-1/2

    ESPN2 is carrying all the matches live. Next is Thursday, I believe.

    http://www.x3dchess.com/index.html
     
  2. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And here is the schedule...because you want to know

    Tuesday, November 11th - 12:45pm ET
    Thursday, November 13th - 12:45pm ET
    Sunday, November 16th - 12:45pm ET
    Tuesday, November 18th - 12:45pm ET
     
  4. djwalker

    djwalker BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 13, 2000
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Game 2

    Kasparov was in good shape, then made a mistake on move 32 and paid for it. He resigned seven moves later.

    [White "X3D Fritz"]
    [Black "Garry Kasparov"]

    1. e4 e5
    2. Nf3 Nc6
    3. Bb5 Nf6
    4. d3 d6
    5. c3 g6
    6. O-O Bg7
    7. Nbd2 O-O
    8. Re1 Re8
    9. d4 Bd7
    10. d5 Ne7
    11. Bxd7 Nxd7
    12. a4 h6
    13. a5 a6
    14. b4 f5
    15. c4 Nf6
    16. Bb2 Qd7
    17. Rb1 g5
    18. exf5 Qxf5
    19. Nf1 Qh7
    20. N3d2 Nf5
    21. Ne4 Nxe4
    22. Rxe4 h5
    23. Qd3 Rf8
    24. Rbe1 Rf7
    25. R1e2 g4
    26. Qb3 Raf8
    27. c5 Qg6
    28. cxd6 cxd6
    29. b5 axb5
    30. Qxb5 Bh6
    31. Qb6 Kh7
    32. Qb4 Rg7
    33. Rxe5 dxe5
    34. Qxf8 Nd4
    35. Bxd4 exd4
    36. Re8 Rg8
    37. Qe7+ Rg7
    38. Qd8 Rg8
    39. Qd7+ *

    Fritz X3D leads 1.5 to .5

    Garry apparently was feeling the time pressure. Even I was surprised that he seperated his stacked rooks, though I'm nowhere near smart enough to understand the full analysis.

    Next match Sunday at 1:00 est. ESPN2 carrying it live.
     
  5. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Dude, Kasparov is way past his prime. He hasn't played good chess since Olympiad. Those types of games are so boring because the strategy in playing against computer is so different from playing against other human. He is probably just trying to make some dough before he retires. Usually chess players in early 40's still has a few good years left, but he hasn't been focused on chess lately.

    Fritz is not anywhere near as good as Junior. It's very flawed in closed positions. I have never beat Fritz myself, but I have drew Fritz many times just by keeping the game closed until the end game. Computers are not as good in end game as humans do yet. I came close to beating computer couple times. Since he played Junior over the summer and it ended in a draw, I don't see any point for him to play another human vs machine type of match. I rather watch Kasparov playing against Kramnik again or Ponomariov.
     
  6. djwalker

    djwalker BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 13, 2000
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't agree with your first sentence, but I heartily agree with your last. Though I'd add Vishy Anand to the list.
     
  7. slipknotter

    slipknotter New Member

    May 31, 2000
    Austin, TX
    Re: Game 2

    So what does all this gibberish mean? Really.
     
  8. djwalker

    djwalker BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 13, 2000
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Game 2

    algebraic chess notation. Here's a good explanation:

    http://www.logicalchess.com/info/reference/notation/

    Once you pick up on it, then it's easy to play through games and learn from them.
     
  9. aloisius

    aloisius Member

    Jul 5, 2003
    Croatia
    Guys I stopped reading the chess page of the sports paper some years ago. I remember that there was a dispute between the then new FIDE( or something like that) president and Kasparov. FIDE wanted to change a century old system of establishing a world champion through the challenger system and changing it to a straight knockout format.
    What’s the situation today? How is the champion determined?

    I also remember that Kasparov lost to a computer 6-7 years ago? Shouldn’t they be able to completely destroy people by now? I can’t believe they haven’t made any progress since Gary’s matches with Deep Blue.
     
  10. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes

    Right now there are two championships. The real one and FIDE. It's confusing. Kramnik defeated Kasparov in 2000 and is currently considered the real world champion. However, there is another title match between Kasparov and Ponomariov that was postponed. I am not sure myself. All I know is Kasparov has been completely ignoring FIDE for many years now.

    Yes and No. Deep blue didn't have very good algorithms. It was just a great calculating machine with a half decent positional evaluation mechanism. Deep blue just goes out and find all the moves possible and evaluate the position within the time limit.

    Deep Junior which Kasparov played earlier this year has very good algorithm. It's strength is direct assalt against the king rather than just pure calculation like Deep Blue. Deep junior was running on 6 pentium processors so it has no where near as good of the computing power as deep blue. Deep blue was a supercomputer. Deep Junior is designed to play with an unique attacking style and try to emulate human.

    Deep junior is the currrent computer champion. Deep Fritz is not nearly as good. I don't think it's even as good as Shrudder or Tiger. HIRACS might have been very interesting because it specializes in closed position which many grandmasters like to do when they play against the computer.
     
  11. djwalker

    djwalker BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 13, 2000
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Garry lost to Deep Blue in '97, drew 3-3 with Deep Jr. in January '03. Kramnik drew with Deep Fritz in '02.

    Ruslan Ponomariov is the FIDE World Champion, I think, but the situation is really a mess. He won the title in a knock-out tourney in which Kramnik and Kasparov did not participate. There was supposed to have been a unification match between Ponomariov and Kasparov in June, but I don't think it came off.

    Here's a quote from a recent Washington Post article:

    "We have too many world champions in chess. India's Vishy Anand, a former FIDE champion, is now the rapid chess champion and World Cup champion. Ukraine's Ruslan Ponomariov, the current FIDE champion, is also called a "knockout" champion. For winning the 2000 world championship against compatriot Garry Kasparov, Russia's Vladimir Kramnik was called Braingames, Einstein and finally classical world champion, depending on how he was gaining or losing sponsors."
     
  12. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Garry won game 3 BTW. Like I said, Fritz is no good at closed positions. Garry kept the game closed and won easily. Now I am looking at game 2. He should have won that one too.
     
  13. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    Question: How do these compare to the chess game I've got on my PC. I mean, its running on a P2 333 processor. Cause I know it sure beats me most of the time, so it must be pretty darn good. :)

    LOL, this thread makes me laugh.
     
  14. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Well, welcome to nerd culture.

    It depends on what engine you got on your machine. Is it Chessmaster? Battlechess? Crafty? Tiger? Some engines are stronger than others. Battlechess is bad. I beat it every time. Fritz is the best there is at open tactical games. Junior is the best at attacking castled king position. HIRACS is best at closed position. Crafty is one of the earliest and is shareware but still very strong. If you have a top engine I mentioned above, I would say Garry's computer opponent is about 250 rating points stronger than your PC.

    For an average personal computer, memory makes bigger difference than speed because it affects the size of the hash table. It doesn't take very long for the computer to come up with top 5 candidate moves. For average human, it doesn't matter which top candidate moves it chooses. It still beats you. Against top pros, it makes big difference. Also sacrifices takes a very long time to calculate, which isn't necessary against weak players. The strategic prospect takes a very long time to calculate, which also isn't necessary against weak players. Computer can just stick with purely tactics against weak players.
     
  15. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    Hey, I'm an engineer who went to a college of 4000 students where 80% are engineering students and of the other 20% nearly all of them are some form of science as well. I know my nerds very well. But that you just typed, that even blew me away.

    Oh....and it's ChessMaster IIRC. I just suck at chess. But 250 times harder, this Garry guy must be good. :)

    Words or phrases in your post that I have no clue what they meant: open tactical game (of chess), castled king position, closed position, hash table.
     
  16. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes


    Oh, I possess the ability to be able to outnerd anyone.

    If your college has 80% engineering students, they must have mostly guys. That's too bad.



    No. Not 250 times harder. I said 250 rating points higher. Garry Kasparov is rated around 2830 ELO. The playing strength of his computer opponent is rated around 2800 ELO. 250 points below would be 2450. Usually when a person just gets his grandmaster title, he is usually rated around 2500. So your computer is close to grandmaster strength and would definitely be able to beat an international master.

    uhhh...it's not that difficult to understand. Most Russian 1st grader would know what I am talking about. You just haven't played enough chess. Hash table is a programming concept. I used to know what it means because I had a homework on that before when I was sophomore in college about 4 years ago. I don't remember what it means anymore. It has been awhile.
     
  17. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    Russian 1st grader : chess
    Me : Nintendo

    :D
     
  18. kerpow

    kerpow New Member

    Jun 11, 2002
    What I would really like to see is a kind of blind computer tournament. Take the top four players and the top four progams and let them have some kind of tournie set up but not allow the players to know who they are playing. Kasparov has played many programs and often admits that his first few games are played to determine the strengths and weaknesses of his opponent. If he didn't who or what he was playing I think it would make it alot more interesting.


    BTW, here's a good link to chess programs.

    http://www.x3dchess.com/press/historyofcomputerchess.htm
     

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