Just when you lose all faith in humanity ...

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by tcmahoney, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    ... something like this happens.

    Awesome.
     
  2. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    The young man now joins Mr. Rogers among the ranks of people picketed by Mr. Phelps and his band of nutjobs.
     
  3. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I'd like to ask a rhetorical question (which I think I know the answer to...)....Why would someone go to all this trouble to protest against a 17 yo gay person ? Do you see them getting into their pick ups and driving 100's of miles to protest against a child molestor ? A bank robber ? A loan shark ?

    What is it about homosexuality that brings out such a visceral reaction in a small number of people ?
     
  4. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm probably going to get flamed for saying something so 'soft,' but that is really touching.
     
  5. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man, what can be said...
     
  6. NER_MCFC

    NER_MCFC Member

    May 23, 2001
    Cambridge, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A couple of years ago, there was an article on Phelps in the Intelligence Report from the Southern Poverty Law Center. In the article, a gay rights activist in Tulsa said he doubted there was anyone in Tulsa who spent more timing thinking about anal sex than Fred Phelps.
     
  7. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a beautiful story.

    There are too many people for whom "WWJD" is just a fashion statement. It's good to see that there are still some people who wear "WWJD" on the inside -- on their hearts.
     
  8. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyone who would is beyond hope. A truly great story.
     
  9. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    Agreed. Fantastic story.
     
  10. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for posting - a really interesting article that left me with conflicting responses.

    First, what kind of a shithole is Kansas when it becomes the butt (sorry) of jokes for Oklahomans?

    I'm left wondering by the poor fellow who was caught in the cross-currents of a battle between those who:

    A. Hate the sinner and,
    B. Love the sinner but hate the sin.

    The kid is being compared to an alchoholic or a drunk:

    "I get to speak about the grace of God," he said. "No matter what the sin, God loves you. He is saying, 'Come on, come back to the family.' I was an alcoholic and a drug addict. I can see the possibility of change."
    A transformation, from gay to straight.

    "These are the hopes, that Michael will change," Eubanks said.


    But there are hopeful signs, too:

    (Parishoner) Watie voted for Oklahoma's ban on same-sex marriage. Civil unions? He might have considered those. Homosexuality? "That's between the person and God," Watie said.


    And this:

    His name was Toby Jenkins and he was a Free Will Baptist pastor for 17 years before accepting that he was gay. Now he preaches at a gay evangelical church in Tulsa.

    Wow! They allow that in Oklahoma?
     
  11. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Made me think of something that was repeated far too often for my taste. Why is it that so many people think that homosexuality is something that can be grown out of, or forcibly changed? Don't get me wrong, it was a great story of tolerance, but this kind of thinking is way to prevalent.
     
  12. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    That really is the love the sinner hate the sin attitude, however. If being gay wasn't a choice, it wouldn't be much of a sin, would it?
     
  13. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ain't it a bitch when sins don't quite pan out.
     
  14. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    Exactly. He "seems to think he's gay." The mother's known about this for a year and half, and that's as close to accepting it as she's gotten? His priest saw him after the service "and seized the chance. He invited Michael to lunch. There was work to do." In other words, we love you kid, but we're going to do everything in our power to convince you how wrong you are.

    It's great to see the town rally around him, but in a month's time, is it likely that people who say things like "Leave our homos alone" are really going to accord those "homos" the same sort of support and acceptance? How long before someone at Arby's calls him a "queer" again?
     
  15. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like most religious whackos, Phelps conveniently ignores the parts of the Bible which conflict with his twisted view.

    "Judge not, lest ye be judged".

    God hates ********? I tell you what, I'm pretty sure there's a special place in Hell for preaching hate.
     
  16. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Provided you believe homosexuality is a sin, as many Christians do (I don't know if most do), what other possible way could you approach this? Keep telling him to change his ways and find God, but be respectful of his choice. As far as I'm concerned, in a fairly literal religious culture, this is as good as its going to get. If you're looking for widespread acceptance of homosexuality as a genetic predisposition rather than a choice, I'm not sure a highly religious community is the place to start.
    Quite frankly, if being proselytized is the extent of the boy's hardship, I'd say the battle's mostly won already.
     
  17. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    You and I believe that - they don't. I've said it before - so long as no one discriminates, you can be as prejudices as you want. I do not want laws put in place forcing people in Oklahoma to believe that being gay is not a choice anymore than I want laws telling me to believe that Christ is my savior.
     
  18. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    Mike and Nicephoras -

    I'm not saying the religious folks in his town have to give up their views on homosexuality being a sin. It would be nice, but whatever. Yet it always gets to me when they think they can brow-beat, or brain-wash, it out of someone. Foisting their beliefs onto the kid isn't what I would call being supportive.
     
  19. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And this is the reasonable middle ground that so few want to talk about. The polls I've seen look like:

    35% Hate ********
    35% Civil Unions are OK
    30% I Wanna Marry Mr. Ed
     
  20. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    In their mind it is. If you believed you had eternal salvation to offer to someone, wouldn't you do that?
    When I stopped being religious some of the people in my temple talked to me about it. I still go for the high holidays, and they don't really bring it up. But, me being Jewish, they mostly ended the conversations with "well, one day you'll see". Christianity, being a far more proselytizing religion, naturally takes this a bit further. I'm really not sure what better reaction you could possibly get from a group of religious people who take their Holy Book pretty literally.
     
  21. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except that adultery, for the most part, is a choice.

    Homosexuality, for the most part, is pre-programmed.
     
  22. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I fully agree.
     
  23. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    I would venture to guess that most Christians who believe engaging in a homosexual act is a sin either accept or are non-commital on whether homosexuality is due to a biological predisposition. The matter of choice still exists. It is no different than alcoholism being in part biological but having drunkeness being considered a sin. Ditto anger.


    P.S. - I wish the rapture thread hadn't closed so quickly. Mainstream denominations and many evangelicals do not interpret Revelation to include a actual rapture and tribulation. Not everyone thinks of the Left Behind series as the Third Testament, along with the Old and New.
     
  24. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd love to hear an argument against it.
     
  25. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm

    Actual numbers from NYT poll from July '04:

    "Which comes closest to your view? Gay couples should be allowed to legally marry. OR, Gay couples should be allowed to form civil unions but not legally marry. OR There should be no legal recognition of a gay couple's relationship."


    Legal Marriage: 28%
    Civil Union: 31%
    No Legal Recognition: 40%
    Clueless: 3%
     

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