Well, I may be a dumbass but I'm not a professional troll. Your posts are just a little too familiar. Let's see fanatically anti Yallop, anti CSA. Goofy, inane posts. Hmm which one? https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8215242&postcount=85 I'll say it again, what good is international play when countries can essentially "buy" the players they want. I would think that Holland or England would be embarrassed to have "foreigners" on their team. Isn't that kind of saying their development program isn't so good anymore? And don't bring up Bircham, there is no way he should have ever been allowed to suit up for Canada and we were wrong to do it. https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8241591&postcount=5 If Stewart's ties to Canada are as tenuous as they seem at first glance, let me say I am the first to be against it. It sends a bad message to players toiling away in the system that someone can just be brought in mercenary like a la Bircham and take a position from somebody hoping to get there. I'm probably in the minority on this but I find it cynical and not a length I would like us to go to...to try and put a winning team on the field. Back to the cave troll
I guess I can add you to the list of uber-mensch Cdn soccer establishment supporters who expect past and present players to fly at their expense to Ottawa and camp out at 36 Metcalfe St in order to beg an audience with the majestic CSA.
anti Yallop = you bet, Fanatically – No; unfortunately I was consistently pessimistic & negative and rarely constructive; he was in over his head, he’ll have more success in the MLS – good luck to him. anti CSA = right again. Fanatically so – No. But consistently so and I think the ongoing performance of the CSA is explanation enough. Goofy, inane posts = so say you, thanks for your .02 cents Regardless of whether a post is similar or indeed opposes your own opinion/position, you toss out the T word because you don’t like how or what I have to say. Fair enough, I suspect it’s a matter of convenience for you to do that. You don’t have the anti Bircham NT selection to yourself; or the mercenary player POV – which was what the Hard & Fast post was meant to touch on. So Deguzman has options; Hargreaves had options; Bircham was presented with an option. They make the decision that best suites their goals and objectives. DeGuzman and Hargreaves will always be Canadian, neither deserves ridicule. Their continued and ongoing development occurs outside of Canada (which is unfortunate). Good luck and much success to both. You opened the Bircham door with the snide immigration reply. You’re the man inferring people are idiots when you disagree with the content. You're the man who can't let go of Hargreaves decision, (Whoregraves). And then you lobe the troll comment - rhetorically speaking, what tag will you stick on DeGuzman if does not select Canada - Grow up man! Perhaps you think everyone should read every thread and post,…. or perhaps you think everyone should at least read every thread you create or every post that you make – you’re out of your mind. I don’t have that kind of time and you’re really not all that informative or engaging. I will say this though, your contribution to the Mother of all…. list is outstanding, an excellent resource; but other than that, your inability to accept that others will have different approaches and opinions is one of the reasons why the game suffers domestically. The folks who administer our domestic programs also possess that inability to consider different approaches and opinions – you fit right in with them! I thought it was ubermench, no hyphen; but no that’s not a list I’d like to be on. As a matter of clarity I’d prefer the CSA to be more pro-active in promoting former NT players who are involved in post-play, soccer-based initiatives. But then again I’d like the CSA to be just more pro-active on many other fronts too. Perhaps more to my initial Bunbury post, I would be interested in knowing which NT players (past & current) do have or are involved in other soccer-based initiatives. So to a degree, I think the players should inform the CSA and provincial associations about what these initiatives are, for example Bunbury now lives in Minnesota, where he operates, The Alex Bunbury Elite Soccer Training Program. www.bunburysoccer.com. I was just informed of this last evening. As an aside, the last time Jonathon DeGuzman was in Toronto, he did a clinic in Scarborough - it would have been nice to know that.
I guess this thread is a bit old, but oh well, I have a few points to make. First, about the Brett Hull example. As far as I know, he was told that he could play for Canada, if he made the team. Canada ALWAYS has a tryout in hockey (even though Gretzky ignored how players were doing when he chose for Torino. Crosby + Phaneuf should have been there, but oh well), and Hull seemed to not like that idea. Maybe because he wouldn't make the team, maybe not. So the US went to him, and got him, because they just name their teams, no tryouts (usually). Second, I am very much pro-Canada, in every sport. I do feel kind of betrayed when players like Hargreaves, and potentially De Guzman, choose to not play for Canada...but I also don't really blame them. It is true that hockey youngsters here dream of the Stanley Cup first, with a Canadian gold medal 2nd. The majority of them, however, would also love to suit up in the Red and White for Canada in the World Juniors. That tournament is as big as the Olympic hockey, and bigger than the World Championships, to Canadians. However, soccer is not hockey. This is not a country of 30 million soccer fans, it is 30 million hockey fans (some of us count for 2 or 3 ). Yes, we have a lot of soccer fans. Canada does not have the longest history, however, so many of those soccer fans cheer for the nation of their birth, their parents birth, grandparents, whatever. I sometimes cheer for England, though my sole link is a grandmother. (To be honest, I cheer for hockey nations first, like the Czechs, Germans, Finns, whomever - except the US, can't cheer for them ) The point there is lost amongst my ramblings, but I will explain it simply. It is a tough decision for every player in soccer. You have your home nation of Canada, where you probably won't ever play in the World Cup, and if you do, you'll be lucky if you get a goal. Or you can play for another nation, where you will get that chance. Some people talk of inspiring youngsters in Canada. I think that Owen Hargreaves can inspire us playing for England just as easily as he could have playing for Canada, because he gets to play more big games for England. I mean, Canada will play in the CONCACAF stuff, and that's about it. England will play qualifiers as well, but they'll also have the Euro and World Cups. If Canada were to make the WC with OH, he'd be all over the news for 3 games. But playing for England, he's in the news for 4-7. It makes a difference. The thing is, Canadian Soccer does need to improve the system, for one. And for two, they should start suggesting to players like OH that sure, go ahead and play for England...but come back and do stuff in Canada too. Run clinics, convince your club team to play friendlies with the National Team or Toronto FC or something. Make advertisements for Canadian Products. Owen Hargreaves can go into Tim Hortons or something. Even if he doesn't play for Canada, just raising his profile here will promote soccer. Same with De Guzman. As much as I'd hate to lose him, he could work the same way. -Viruk p.s. When someone mentioned telling him that his brother will never play in the WC if he plays for Holland, that doesn't necessarily mean blackmail. Just point out that Canada doesn't have the skill without him to make it, so Julian can play in qualifiers all he wants, but he won't make it without Jonathan. That'd be much better than blackmail to waste the use of a decent player.
Ya, Most athletes on that level feel very special and feel that everything is uh... due them, anyway. There's not much reason to expect anything commendable in that direction. I dunno. It's just discouraging, that's all. And it don't help ... Come back and shill products?? Wow is that a depressing thought. Basically capitalizing on his success in England. Ya! I wouldn't put it past him, though. Guess we're good enough for that. Though, ya, he could come back and run clinics and stuff, I don't think he would want to, but that would be something positive ... Often that's what people do in the third world, leave, become a doctor, and then later, return to give back. Maybe when his playing days are done, and if he can't land a coaching job in merry ol' England, he'll fume about it, become Canadian again, and try here. .
I have to agree that if I was De Guzman, and was living in another country, I'd feel as if the country was my own, and feel distant from Canada. As fr Alex Bunbury, I really liked that guy . . .when was his last game in a NT uniform? was he too old? I've heard that Landon Donovan's Dad is a Canadian, but born in the states. Anyone know if this is true?
i think it depends. perhaps for someone like de guzman who moved to the netherlands when he was 13, then yes. but for anyone who moves to another country at 18 and then already wants to play for their "adoptive" nation at like 23, well, that's a load of crap. it's really more for money than anything else. i think even for de guzman, i'd still say it is.
Bunbury's last game would have been in the WCQ for 1998. He was in Holger's plans for 2000 or so but had I believe was nursing an injury while with KC in the MLS and never did make it to any camps. LD's Dad is Cdn and WAS born in Canada but moved to the USA as a young man.
That article is crap. It's taken information that was already known--that JDG2 was going to apply for a Dutch passport--and spun it to suggest that he has picked Holland. You'll note there are no quotes from JDG2 in the article. He is quoted here (it's in Dutch) http://www.sportweek.nl/detail.asp?groupid=2&newsid=42973 A Dutch poster at the Vs board translated the key parts: So, all that happened today was that a glorified blog tried to make itself more legitimate than it is.
http://www.ad.nl/sport/voetbal/article1821531.ece#reactie What's official is that he's applied for a Dutch passport. He hasn't made up his mind yet about which national team he wants to play for.
Just to clarify: it's pretty logical for him to want a Dutch passport as an EU passport will make it much easier for EU clubs to contract him, considering the strict rules that are in place for contracting non-EU players in all EU countries. In short, making himself a more attractive prospect for EU clubs is probably more of a reason for De Guzman to apply for a Dutch passport than the possibility of playing for Holland. That said, he's 20, and will need to decide on which NT he wants to play for before he reaches the age of 21. So you'll all find out soon enough.
Actually, I don't think he he does have to make the decision by 21, johan neeskens. The age of 21 is for switching allegiances if one has played for a different country i.e. Marcel DeJong of Roda had to 21 to switch to Holland because he had played for Canada as a youth. I think that if you are not tied to one country or another the decision is remains open indefinately. You see this a lot with the Brazilians who play for other countries. They become nationalized in the country whose league they star and having never been part of the Brazilian set-up, are free to play for their adopted homeland.
You could be right, it's just that all the Dutch newspapers are saying is that he needs to decide before he turns 21. Btw, like I said on the Dutch board, I'm not particularly liking the idea of him playing for Holland, I think it's somewhat immoral and not fair towards his home country. With Salomon Kalou it was a different story, as the Ivory Coast government and football association are very dodgy indeed.
Maybe we should petition the Queen (and her siblings), since they have close ties to Canada. Margriet was born in the Ottawa Civic Hospital. So let's get them involved to have him playing in the Red and White...yes... Go Denmark/Poland/Japan/Austria/Bahrain/etc! (their flags are all red + white)
Since Chelsea is chasing the young star, he'll need a EU passport in order to receive British work permit. If he does leave, I would be extremely disappointed as I truly believe that playing in the World Cup is strictly to advance his career and not because of his deep yearning to represent Holland. If Chelsea wants his services he will have already advanced his career to where it needs to be and not have to rely on a big WC performance. I'm of two minds on this. I hope he plays in the World Cup, but with Canada only. If he can accomplish his goals outside the international stage, whats the difference. If he considers himself Canadian he'll do the right thing. This is different the Hargreaves as he has been given every opportunity to play for this country and his brother plays for Canada. Bottom line.... I will boo him severely if he plays for Holland and be even more irate if he hams it up in media claiming he's a patriotic Canadian.
Well our CSA is as dodgy as they come. Ivory Coast at least has WC possibilities. I don't see any difference. Holland is just another Euro country that can't develop enough home grown talent so they poach the 'new world'.
Canuckfan-Holland can't develop enough homegrown talent so they poach!! that's hilarious!!!!!!!!! DigzTFC-how do you know that JdG has a deep yearning to play for Canada?-he is just like any other immigrant, loyalties change, if your not an immigrant you'll never understand. He lives in the culture, speaks the language fluently, his friends are dutch he has in all likelyhood become as orange blooded as any other dutchman. If he chooses to play for Canada it will because he doesn't think he's good enough for Holland. Euro passport-without doubt a very handy document, I have one. I however live in Canada and my loyalties are with Canada, when Canada's mnt played Oranje I cheered for Canada. When the WC or Euro comes around I have no trouble cheering for the Orange. JdG wanting to play for his new home doesn't surprise me in the least.the best of luck to him.
You are right. I'm not an immigrant so case closed. I'm glad you brought that as your best argument. Clearly I am wrong and do not understand the situation as well as you do. Thank you for the clarification. But, loyalties don't change, that's what makes them loyalties otherwise they're just preferrences. Best of luck to you
I take offense to the statement: If he chooses to play for Canada it will because he doesn't think he's good enough for Holland. Playing with his brother may well be the deciding factor.
naive idealist-people change wives/husbands, players switch clubs,fans switch club allegiances families split, people change nationalities...loyalty is an urban myth for the delusional... if you've never been married you don't know what it's really like, if you've never lost a parent you can't truly imagine the grief till it happens, if you're not an immigrant you have no idea what it is to be one...loyalties change. Canuckfan-his brother becomes a factor if he doesn't qualify for Holland, I'm sure he'll choose his brother over playing for Jamaica or Philippines....there are many brothers playing in the same sport more often than not they quite happy not playing together...
But how can you state with such authority that that is indeed the case with de Guzman? That makes you seem extremely arrogant and presumptuous, which is what I believe DigzTFC was responding to. There also people, you know, who remain with their spouses, play for one club their entire life and certainly in the case of fans, support just one club. Your attempted 'social commentary' is incredibly one sided, but I'm sure that's another debate. Should I launch into a tirade about how you've never had a brother? You have no idea (nor do any of us here) how close Julian and Jonathan are, so for you to suggest that playing with his brother only becomes a factor if he doesn't qualify for Holland is once again, arrogant and presumptuous. I'm sure Giuseppe Rossi had American friends, lived in the American culture and spoke the language yet he still chose the nation of his ancestors, so it's impossible to tell where one's loyalties lie, and while many of us are speculating, you being so assertive is just ridiculous.
I'd love to see him play for Canada, as I cheer for Canada above all else...but I must admit, if I moved to another country at...what was it, 12? Well, I don't know if my loyalties for my birthplace would have sunk in yet. It's certainly possible for him to feel strongly for Holland after living there for 8 years, and those 8 are some of the most important one's for a person's outlook on life - which includes loyalties. In terms of closeness to his brother, I've heard they talk on the phone everyday, which would be pretty close. I don't mind not talking to my brother for a week, and I think we're kind of close...kind of. It is possible that he's not choosing between home loyalty vs. the ability to play for a successful WC team...it could be that he's choosing between playing with his brother vs. loyalty to his new home. However, it's all meaningless speculation. He will choose who he will choose, and we've got no say in the matter. And, frankly, I'll cheer for him either way. I'd prefer to cheer for him with Canada, but that wouldn't stop me from cheering for him with Holland. To me, he's Canadian, no matter where he plays.
A Dutch Report: (I suggest you read the blog comments at the bottom) Eyenoorder De Guzman is Dutchman Date: 13-Nov-2007 15:26 By Sander van Hal Whether he or Canada Netherlands wants to play, knows Jonathan de Guzman (photo) still not. He has until his 21st birthday in September next year, the time for the node to take decisions. But the choice also, a Dutch passport applications will anyway. "I already explained. De Guzman was on his twelfth year from Toronto to the Netherlands for Feyenoord to go play football. Because he has more than five years in our country and live here are school doorliep, is the expectation that applying for a Dutch passport for him will not insurmountable problems. His Canadian passport and nationality he may in that case. Because the Dutch nationality to believe, the Guzman EU citizens and it can easily move through Europe. Moreover, he without fuss in the English Premier League to the battle, where players from outside the European Union must adhere to strict requirements to be admitted. "I see there are only advantages to dual nationality to believe," says the playmaker opposite Sportweek. Respond to Article Log in or register Sportweek.nl Bolus: (14-Nov 11:21) But with the dutch team can come to an Wk and succeed in Canada. Gigamaster: (14-Nov 10:30) He does not for the Dutch team, because he wants his brother out for Canada. He wants a passport to immediately easy to be accepted in England. Does anyone, for example Kalou still on his Dutch passport since he is already in England? StefanX: (13-Nov 23:07) If Ajax fans I say: wonderful footballer. Pretty soon there for him eventually in may have in Austria / Zwitserland..wie know he continues to evolve and he urged soon. WJL88: (13-Nov 22:05) Fortunately ... is / was Marco van Basten a great football player! Beginlink: (13-Nov 20:54) Quote: Originally posted by Robby on November 13, 2007 Hopefully Marco so wise to him not to take part in Orange. Limited footballer. You need a very large football because tge conclusion. It may also agree with a zwabberende selectgiebeleid our coach who seems to have a patent on inviting limited footballers. I am free to be so limited and talented in your vision than it is to run, and therefore I hope that he does for NL choose. The slec ... AdB.: (13-Nov 17:40) In a potential international, now there are much better players for the midfield Robby: (13-Nov 16:47) Orange, "its" position has enough quality around. V. Bronckhorst is not leiderstype. Too cautious. Boerchie: (13-Nov 16:34) Nonsense. It is a good voeballer, but if he has to compete with players like Van Persie, Sneijder, Van der Vaart and Affellay than delft he onderspit. He is not the type of player that the Dutch squad at the moment requires. Netherlands is a leader in the field, and even as the undisputed leader in Blackburn, Van Bronckhorst, are not so eligible ... Robby: (13-Nov 16:12) Hopefully Marco so wise to him not to take part in Orange. Limited footballer. Koala: (13-Nov 16:11) For Canada makes it more likely I think http://www.sportweek.nl/detail.asp?groupid=2&newsid=42973
From the Globe and Mail http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071113.wsptsoccer13/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home