Nice job, El Jefe, with the John Wagner interview: http://www.3rddegree.net/comment/guest/index.htm One quote from Wagner, though, has me a bit concerned: "At this point, we're thinking that more than likely, it's going to be grass....I think that I'm of the viewpoint that there's about a 90% chance that it's gonna be grass" Of course, it's been a several weeks since Dustin interviewed Wagner, so hopefully HSG is 100% committed to a grass field by now. But is that actually the case, or are we still running a 10% chance that Frisco may have artificial turf ??
Here's a sad thing. I was at Southlake, before the season started, looking to see where I wanted to sit. My rep from the Burn was actually selling the meits of the fake grass... He was saying we might have it at the new stadium. This goes to show that ignorance can be a dangerous thing. Well, one year of education at Southlake would be worth getting a grass field at Frisco.
"The other thing thing that I find out about him is that he's a great leader of people. He can band people around him and get them to follow him" We're seeing some of that!!
synth vs a la naturale At lower levels of the game, the new generation turf is really not that bad. This is not the old knee decimating stuff of the '70's. Of course, the problem with these freakishly quick athletes, is that the slight difference in speed of the perfectly true surface does take the game to break neck speeds. I remember the season opener against LA. All was going well, untill a single ball doomed the surface, the stadium, and the season. Remember when the ball bounced between Broome and someone else. The ball hit some weird lump that caused the ball to take a freakishly high bounce. Our two defenders collided together, and I believe the little fish slid the easy shot past our keeper. In some parts of the world, the rain is such a factor that this stuff would actually be a great improvement over the soggy grass. However, the verdict is in and the jury is unanimous. If you are really building a stadium for soccer, grass is the only way to go. If, however, you are building a Frisco ISD stadium, field turf may be more to your liking. We will soon see the leopards true spots.
Well, I also talked to him in June and he was saying 90% that it would be grass then, too. Basically, I think that he wants grass and everybody involved wants grass. And frankly, at this point, they all think that it's going to be grass. I'd be shocked if Frisco doesn't have grass. The fact that he's bringing up the fact that artificial turf might hinder their ability to host national team games is very telling. That tells me that they're thinking "No grass = no national team games." And since they're counting on national team games to make the numbers work, that means that they'll have to go with grass. But anyone in his position is going to leave themselves a little "out" clause just in case it doesn't happen that Frisco has grass. If he said unequivicably "Yes, Frisco will have grass," and by some chance it didn't, then he'd have another PR snafu on his hands. But by saying "90%," well, he can always say, "It wasn't ever a done deal." At the end of the day, I'm pretty darn sure that Frisco will have grass.
Didn't Wagner also mention that they want to have World Cup qualifiers in Frisco, and the WSMNT won't play on turf? That's a pretty powerful argument for real grass. There has to be a way to protect the real grass for the pro games. You really can't say from the "high schoolers" anymore, cause some of the pros ARE high schoolers.
Only HS football, not HS soccer, will be played on that field, from what I've been told, is that correct? If so, until Frisco opens a 3rd HS, and they have yet to begin construction at all, there will be NO use of that field. Even when they do it will only be every other week. With three teams, they will be scheduled with one home and two away one Friday, and the next will have two home and one away. So, every other week they will need the SSS to play in. The other week the one home team should use Frisco ISD's current stadium. Each team plays 10 games, so that "should" mean a total of 5 games played on the field in a season. I don't believe there will be a 3rd team by 2005, so that means NO games in the Burn's first season.
Texgator.... you seem to be a True Zealot on so many issues. But everything involving your own municipality is a disconnect. 5 games a season! HAH! You really think the Frisco ISD isn't going to go hole-hog when the UIL playoffs begin? Do you really think the Frisco ISD isn't going to USE this stadium they're paying for? That the the Citizens of Frisco are paying for? The current Frisco ISD stadium will be cycled down to the middle schools. The new one is going to have a game every friday night for one of the two current highschools. I also believe it will be used for Plano West Senior High when the time is right, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it used for Celina either. Thursday night use could double from 10/11 to 20/22 the number of grid fixtures. Add in another 20-30 events, including concerts and band contests, you're looking at the need for George Toma. It has to be grass. It has to generate revenue. These things are known in advance. On THESE POINTS i'm actually confident that Wagner has his ducks lined up in advance. I anticipate little conflict here. I anticipate the field will be MLS/USSF quality in November. I anticipate bookoo highschool events. But WE will control the venue. As Wagner said, that's the key. -bs
You know, I wasn't considering the UIL playoffs and that's a good point, so thats good for another 3-4 games a year. But I have heard nothing of other ISD's using this stadium and that's never been mentioned by those at Frisco ISD. Would I be absolutely shocked if it happened? Not really. When this deal was released to the public there were several people quoted as saying this stadium was going to handle the overflow from having more then one HS team in town. Overflow would suggest that the majority of games played at the old stadium. You know the citizens of Frisco also helped pay for the minor league baseball park and have yet to demand usage of that. What makes you think this stadium will be all that different? As you yourself pointed out, HSG will control this stadium, and will do what they can to limit events that don't produce revenue for them.
I hate all this talk about HS football in our stadium, and I know they're helping pay, but it still bothers me. They better not tear it up too bad.
So if HSG allowed all the high schools to benefit from field usage, would that mean that these schools would go on Burn drives for season ticket holders?
Frisco ISD will contribute $15 million to the project's $65 million cost. How much did the school district contribute to the Roughriders stadium's constuction costs? $0, I believe.
No, the ISD didn't pay anything but the city did through the TIF funds. Which is why I wrote "citizens" and not ISD.
Yes, but I still think you're missing the point. Frisco ISD isn't contributing $15 million just so it can mainly use the facility's satellite fields, and only occasionally use the main stadium. For $15 million, I'd be very surprised if the ISD won't want use of the main stadium at least once a week during football season, and perhaps twice a week when the Burn are on the road.
With the eventuality of 3 high schools (and therefore 3 varsity football teams) the ISD had no choice but to spend @ $15 million on a stadium. So partnering up with HSG and allowing them to maintenance the fields and do the planning made sense. Will they WANT to use the thing every weekend? I would think so. The question is, what kind of arrangement do they have with HSG regarding usage? Are they required to use other facilities first before using this stadium? From what I've been hearing, this very well might be the case. If so, then you would only expect them to need the stadium every other Friday, and only when the city has 3 varsity teams. We just opened our second HS this year, but they won't have a varsity team until next season. Even if the the third HS opens for the 2006 semester (I doubt it) then there won't be 3 varsity teams playing until the 2007 season (the end of the Burn's 3rd season in Frisco). As for other sports, I remember seeing in one of the plan diagrams that one of the auxillary fields will have bleachers around it. I'm sure this will be used for the HS soccer teams, as oppossed to opening up the stadium and exposing the field to unneccessary wear and tear for an event that won't draw more then a few hundred spectators.
Actually, I do believe that Frisco ISD contributed to the construction costs for the Dr. Pepper/7up Ballpark, and that in return, they get to use the place for their baseball games. I could be wrong, however.
The deal between HSG and FISD calls for FISD to contribute $15 million toward the cost of the stadium (FISD voters approved $17.5 million in a bond package in 2000, so they're saving a few bucks, while getting a better stadium). In return, HSG allows FISD to use the stadium for high school varsity football games completely rent-free. HSG gets all the stadium revenues, but they're also responsible for upkeep. It's a good deal for FISD because they get to use a high quality stadium for free and they don't have pay for its upkeep. Correct. The junior high teams, the high school junior varsity football teams, and the high school soccer teams will be using an auxiliary field right next to the stadium which will have bleachers. I don't think that the use of the stadium by two high schools varsity football teams will present that much of a problem for a grass field. Certainly, you can't look at the field situations in Foxboro, Kansas City, and Denver as a guide for two reasons: First, pro players weigh about 50-100 lbs. more than high school players. That's quite a difference. Second, the NFL hashmarks are quite a bit narrower than high school or college hashmarks. What difference does that make? Since a play can only be run between the hashmarks, you'll see all the wear and tear between those hashmarks, since that's where the linemen will be operating. In the NFL, that a pretty narrow strip down the center of the field. But in high school and college, that strip is quite a bit wider, so that wear and tear will be distributed over a wider space. It's the reason why the wear and tear at the Cotton Bowl, Rose Bowl, and Spartan Stadium hasn't been as bad as at the NFL stadiums.
El Jefe, Do you know if the deal between HSG and FISD requires the ISD to use other facilities before using the new stadium? Is there anything restricting usage in the agreement?
Other than the "only HS varsity football" requirement, there are no restrictions. So far as I know, both Frisco High and Centennial will be using it for their varsity football teams starting with the 2005 season. The fact that we'll be sharing the place with two high school is good in the sense that they won't be able to mark up the field too elaborately. After all, any markings that are specific to one school would have to be removed or covered up in time for the other school to play there. In the end, I think that they'll only have a gridiron, hashmarks, and numbers. And hopefully, they'll put down those markings in chalk.