Jhon Duran

Discussion in 'Colombians Abroad' started by villus, Jan 16, 2023.

  1. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008


    Seems to have come out of nowhere, EPL not the first choice for him and they have 2 senior strikers for one spot already but lets see what their plan is.
     
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  2. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I waited 22 years for Villa to sign a new striker. At last!

    Vamos Jhon!

     
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  3. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    Juan Pablo's successor has been secured. For a while thought Morelos might be Villa bound with Gerard there but Duran is the chosen one.
     
  4. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Villa have been linked with him for weeks. There were stories that Villa had multiple bids rejected but I figure we just paper talk.

    Duran tweeted something cryptic just before the news came out too.

    This is huge for him, Villa (oh whom I am a long suffering fan since JPA was there) and the NT. Clearly they need to take it slow with him - but he can be there 9 for a long long time and it gives Colombia a 9 in the prem on a well resourced team. He has a gifted Spanish manager and multiple Latin teammates. He'll get to practice pens with the best keeper in the world.
     
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  5. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    1614996740850999296 is not a valid tweet id
     
  6. krass

    krass Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Wondering how much they paid for him

    Great move
     
  7. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    $18M USD + $4M USD incentives. Fire keep some sell on rights
     
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  8. sidspaceman

    sidspaceman Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 20, 2002
    AMÉRICA DE CALI
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
     
  9. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
     
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  10. krass

    krass Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Yaser and Duran show that Envigado is doing a great job developing players that are able to play at the highest level at a young age, now they could and should start asking for more money for their transfers.
     
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  11. Azucarero

    Azucarero Member+

    May 9, 2008
    I and most of you complain all the time when MLS grabs our younger players. We might have to reevaluate now.

    I think Lorenzo's call ups played a big factor, but I don't think Duran makes this move nor for this kind of money if he stayed with Envigado.

    And that's a damn shame...
     
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  12. Froboy69

    Froboy69 Member+

    Inter Milan
    Colombia
    Mar 25, 2011
    San Diego
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    From Colombia, to the USA, to England. At only 19 I am pleased to see how appealing he is to foreign countries and I can't wait to see what he can do if he gets the playing time that he needs.
     
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  13. Doogs

    Doogs Member+

    Dec 11, 2010
    Miami
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Hm idk, seems a bit extreme over this 1 transfer.

    correct me if I'm wrong but didn't yaser asprilla sign for Watford from envigado?

    As for the fee, probably where I would agree but again why tf does it matter whether he sells for 20 million or 1.
     
  14. crzdcolombian

    crzdcolombian Member+

    Jul 17, 2006
    Avon,CT
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Hope he is our next big player. That’s a massive price tag. He went for 2x Luis Diaz that is insane!!! 2.5x more than Marlos Moreno or Davison Sanchez that won the biggest title in the americas….. that’s called better agents and marketing.

    hope envigado getting some of that money
     
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  15. Azucarero

    Azucarero Member+

    May 9, 2008
    On the flip side, does your one example negate what I'm saying?

    Look, I'd still much rather our promising kids not go to MLS. But, while we always bash it, Duran's price tag and reputation vaulted tremendously in just one season there. And that season was good, but nothing out of this world.

    The price tag is a reflection of how much the player is valued in the market. Yaser got bought for 3 million. Duran for 18. Is Duran worth 5 times what Yaser is? No. Duran being a goal scorer partially accounts for the difference. But really it's because one was still playing for Envigado while the other wasn't.

    That's the difference. And you can be damn sure that a kid is far more likely to get decent minutes of playing time for a European side if that side payed 20 million on him as opposed to 1.

    Go ask Cucho Hernandez. BTW, he's another guy that Watford group bought directly from Colombia. No other European sides from the big leagues are buying directly from Colombia. Every single one of our guys in the major leagues has gotten there through some middle man. Including Diaz and Sinisterra. Duran is going to be playing in the same league as those two at a far younger age.
     
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  16. crzdcolombian

    crzdcolombian Member+

    Jul 17, 2006
    Avon,CT
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Duran was sold more than Alvarez to Man City haha
     
  17. Doogs

    Doogs Member+

    Dec 11, 2010
    Miami
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    um, I think it does because you said you didn't see him making that jump to Villa if he stayed at Envigado even though we literally had someone make the same jump very recently.

    as for the money, yeah maybe true that because of the tag they may actually use him because they may feel obligated to use him more than someone who was paid less.

    can you elaborate on Luis Diaz and Sinisterra? because I don't follow.
     
  18. Azucarero

    Azucarero Member+

    May 9, 2008
    No it doesn't. My point was that maybe we might need to reevaluate how much we crap on our young players going to MLS. We now have a kid who's going to be playing in the EPL at a younger age than any other Colombian whose played there before after he transferred from MLS.

    Your one example about Yaser transferring does not negate that point in any way.

    In fact, if anything, that example in and of itself points to the MLS as being better for young players' careers. Yaser was bought by Watford. Watford is a 2nd division side. They have been for most of their history. Watford has no shot of winning direct promotion right now either. Duran is going to Aston Villa. They're in the EPL, a far more historic side that always stays in the premiership.

    And frankly I don't see how you can make any feasible argument that Duran would've been bought by a side like Aston Villa if he stayed at Envigado when he literally scored 1 goal less in his last season there than he did in his one season in MLS. Clearly where he played had a huge effect on his marketability.

    Sini and Diaz are our best young players in Europe. Both of them play in the EPL. Neither of them were bought directly from Colombia. Both needed more than 2 brilliant seasons in lesser European leagues (Netherlands and Portugal) in order to get a transfer to the EPL. Duran is going to be playing in the same league as them at a much younger age, with much less impressive stats, after playing in a much more inferior league: MLS.

    And I brought them up because they, like every other player we have in the big European Leagues, got there after transferring to some other league first.

    Now that I think about it, this 1 transfer is far more impressive than ANY transfer the Colombian league has EVER done. Nothing comes to close to the price tag, no one went to nearly a prestigious a club as Villa, and no one did anything close to those things at 19!
     
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  19. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    The MLS gets a lot of side eye but they pay well, they've started to sell very well and they have excellent attendance. The players are safe here and their families prob want to move here too.

    It's only a matter of time as the TV deals get stronger for MLS that the league will get more and more competitive just based on money and ability to sign talent. It's how markets work.

    This is definitely aided by the weakness of Argentine currency which has made playing for the most prestigious sides in SA less financially advantageous and limited their capacity to sign talent from elsewhere in SA.
     
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  20. Doogs

    Doogs Member+

    Dec 11, 2010
    Miami
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    kind of a meaningless stat though? how many colombians have even gone to europe after being in the MLS? reevaluate once we see some consistency.

    here are your exact words, Yaser Asprilla signed for Watford directly from Envigado, therefore my point complete negates the point that you made down below (up?)


    yes, I know who Aston Villa are thanks for that

    but I agree that MLS are great at marketing which is how they manage to fool the masses into thinking that they have this incredibly talented league. Good place to get some fresh eyes

    this is an interesting point, I guess you're interested in seeing players move directly to the EPL but this isn't something that matters to me personally, however I guess thats true. Luis Diaz signed directly from Colombia to Porto and Sinisterra also signed directly for Feyenoord which were both great moves.

    im not someone who's ever impressed by price tags, but didn't Marlos Moreno sign for Manchester City not too long ago at around the same age as Duran?
     
  21. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    According to Pipe Sierra, Envigado will receive >10% of the base fee. So when you combine with their initial sale to the Fire, it's right around (if not a smidge higher) than what Envigado got from the direct sale of Yaser to Watford.

     
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  22. Azucarero

    Azucarero Member+

    May 9, 2008
    Obviously we'd have to see more. Thus why I wrote: "we MIGHT need to reevaluate now." Especially considering Duran's move to the EPL from MLS is both more expensive and more prestigious than any other transfer any Colombia league team has EVER done.

    You can't seriously say that Yaser's move to a middling Championship squad is of an equal footing to Duran's move to Villa. If you actually think that, there really is not point to this debate whatsoever.

    This is my whole point! Be it the marketing or whatever the hell it is, those eyes looking at the MLS didn't make Duran any offers when he was in Envigado.

    You're missing the argument. I want as many of our Colombian players succeeding on the big stages of futbol as possible. It brings more prestige to our futbol, and it exposes our players to the toughest competition, which only helps Colombia in the long run. Many things go into that. One of the most important aspects of that goal starts with having bigger teams in Europe interested in signing our players in the first place.

    Of course Diaz and Sini made great moves to Europe. But literally all of us were waiting for them to get signed to teams in the big 5 leagues once they started succeeding in the leagues they went to. Now, we hope that Sini eventually gets signed to a club that competes in Champions or can compete for a league title, right?

    It's all about prestige. And NO Colombian has ever started playing for any prestigious club directly after transferring from a Colombian club. It's never happened. Ever. Now, Villa itself is not a crazy prestigious club. But, it's far better than the Watfords, Huescas, Spezias, and Pescara's who've signed a couple Colombian kids who never panned out in the past. And Villa is in a far more prestigious league than Porto, Feyenoord, Ajax, or Genk--who've been very kind to our more recent batch of talented kids.

    You're bringing up AWFUL comparisons. Marlos Moreno was NEVER going to play for City. We knew that then, and we all know it now. They bought him as an investment. They loaned him out endlessly and he barely has a career anymore.

    And don't negate the price tags. They are a very clear indication of what the club wants to do with the player. City purchasing Marlos for 5 million told us right away that he was a long-term project at best. Villa buying Duran for 18 million tells us that he is going to be competing for a spot on the starting 11 in no time.

    And, what's more, Marlos was literally the most electric attacker in Colombia's most prestigious team the year they won their first Libertadores in 30 years. The fact that after all that, Marlos could only get a 5 million loan project and Davinson could only get signed by Ajax for the same price, once again, shows that Colombia is just awful at exporting talent to the best leagues.

    You can definitely say that we shouldn't be sold on MLS yet. I agree. But don't try to tell me that any Colombian league transfer compares to Duran's. They don't.
     
  23. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    Things change in life, people and systems tend to progress when they have more money. You don't need to look at just Colombia, a lot of good Uruguayan talent is going to MLS, MLS is commanding more transfer fees when selling players and established level talent is now going there at a younger age. There are now academies in MLS, they are producing American and Canadian home grown players who are now playing at high level clubs in the champions league. The league is not the MLS of 5 or 10 years ago and its perfectly logical that with the value of the clubs growing and the amount of money to be made the yankees are investing and are now reaching out to scout directly to their back yard in South America.

    It's not a dead end anymore and although the level of soccer isn't as high as good European leagues the pay and ability to use it as a stepping stone to a bigger move is clearly there. Ideally if MLS is seeing the value of our players Europe will follow soon, either way hopefully our clubs can get more fees to help develop more players because we are a relatively untapped resource of talent.
     
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  24. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    As a Fire fan I am a bit salty he is leaving so soon but as a Colombian fan kind of excited.

    That said, I think going to Portugal or Italy would have been my preference for this kid's development but will keep an open mind.
     
  25. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    As a Villa fan, bummed they couldn't fly a PJ to Cali to do the medical and forced him to leave the camp.

    Hopefully this indicates Emery is really into him and wants to build him into the squad.
     
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