Jesse Marsch out at Leeds, rumored for Southampton job

True. Also true: Leeds tactically protecting a 2-0 lead without Jesse:

Sancho with the equaliser. Crazy pressure at the Stretford End. Leeds can't withstand it and Sancho smashes in. 2-2 on 71 mins. #lufc

— Phil Hay (@PhilHay_) February 8, 2023

 

Yeah, I'm not sure the triumvirate is better at tactically protecting a lead.

Jesse was somewhat inflexible and left his team open to comebacks, but he was also pretty unlucky. Both can be true.

 

Well Chris Armas just became the first American to have an undefeated EPL coaching career....LOL

 

Pressing was not invented by Dortmund or Liverpool.

But gegenpressing or counter-pressing is a specific type of pressing focused on winning the ball back immediately after losing it. Ralf Rangnick is basically the originator of the tactic and it’s what the Red Bull system is based off. But he was also very influential among German coaches in general and coaches like Klopp and Tuchel all adopted versions of gegenpressing themselves, that is distinct from the Red Bull system.

So when people talk about gegenpressing they are talking about something unique and specific, and they are not necessarily talking about the Red Bull system. And gegenpressing continues to be seen in lots of different contexts.

 

What you just described is the foundational principle of Barcelona defending. Yes, I know, gegenpressing is done in a different way. I think we know how, as it's talked about in every soccer game these days.

Do you know what would happen if you gegenpressed Diego Maradona? You'd get gegen-destroyed, because he would dribble right around you as if you weren't there. You're weren't going to get the ball from him no matter how much you press.

Counter-pressing is an old idea. It was popular for a time in England way back in the 60s. It was part of Total Football in the 1970s. It's been part of football for a long, long time. There are few new ideas in football. I'm happy for Ralf Rangnick that he invented a "new" type of counter-pressing. I'm happy for Jurgen Klopp. I'm happy for Liverpool. I hope they can finish in the top 10.

 

What happened under Rangnick was a tactical innovation that had a heavy influence on a generation of German coaches. It’s no longer super novel and you see elements of it adopted by all sorts of teams in all sorts of leagues. The game and tactics are constantly evolving.

And just because Liverpool is a bit down this year doesn’t mean that Klopp suddenly became a bad coach.

The Red Bull system has failed pretty badly in England. But it did work in Germany fairly well for awhile though Red Bull themselves have somewhat moved on from it.

Maradona is obviously one of the greatest ever to play the game. But he also played in a different era where different traits were valued and the tactics were different. Doesn’t take away from his greatness at all, but it’s also very hard to compare across eras.

 

https://theathletic.com/4162609/202...ctics-transitions/?source=user_shared_article

 

Prediction was based on Marsch still being a manager. He is out, team got road point, so it means Marsch was part of the problem.

 

I'm not picking on you, I'm more picking on the media and the tales it tells.

The point I'm making is that the same tactics get recycled over and over with small tweaks. You know who was revolutionary? Ernst Happel. From him came Total Football, high line pressing, etc. Everyone else has just made tweaks off his ideas. I think Arrigo Sacchi was somewhat revolutionary, too. Guardiola, Rangnick, Klopp, Bielsa, Michels, Cruyff, etc. all made tweaks to what already existed. Happel was the genius. People don't know what came before, so they think it's all new ideas. It's not.

The other point I'm making is that systems won't stop exceptional quality. Maradona would be unstoppable in any era. He would be just as successful today, probably more, because there isn't the kind of horrible fouling that went on back in the 80s. Maldini and Baresi from Milan would stop anything that came their way today.

Also, I never said Klopp was a bad coach. I just say he's not revolutionary. What he's been good at is getting his players to buy into a system and then managing them. Now his players look old and worn out, because that style of playing wears players out, and teams know how to counter it.

 

This is absurdly facile.

 

It's not, it's solid, logical argument.

 

Sample size of 1 has no value.

 

Especially when teams almost always have a "coaching bump", when a new coach is brought in.

 

Leeds managing troika said there was very little change from Jesse's scheme and I did not see any. Adams and McKennie were bosses in the midfield against Man U. Weston was sometimes unsure where he was supposed to be defensively but it was his first match with a few days training.

Very excited to see their impact as they get more time together.

 

Generally agree, but I'd gave two nits.

One, this rise of pressing was largely enabled by increases in player fitness. So while it existed before, the effectiveness (probably) and utilization (definitely) on a per person basis has gone up. That part of why I think it is a bit of a sea change. I don't think we ever see it fully recede.

The other is that I don't think Klopp tired his players out. They got old. It happens. I don't know that the pressing really accelerated that.

 

I was going to reply the same way but the whole issue of history in soccer really bores me. I would have added that fitness changed when Cap'n Ollie Kahn complained about his teammates being out of shape and pointed to the American players who ran all day. I can't even remember when that was - 1994? It's in my file and forget basket somewhere.

 

I think this is a really good point about the balance between structure and freedom. If you never break the structure, it is all too predictable. But you don't want 11 guys out there freelancing. Certain guys will be more expected to be the ones to decide when the structure needs to be broken or where those outside the system chances can be found. You don't want everyone doing it, but you absolutely want some payers able to take chances as they come and work outside strict guidelines.

 

Yep. I think there's definitely an argument that Berhalter was too structured at times, but I'm not sure if that was entirely him or just how it played out. In the World Cup, it was clearly Pulisic and Dest who had the freedom to freelance. Is that enough? Perhaps not.

I'd also note freelancing isn't great for every player. The big adjustment that Weah made to go from super sub to starting for the US was positional discipline. He looked dangerous in his sub roles but also ended up all over the field. When he came back and started, he became very effective staying high and right and playing his role.

Weah has skills, but he doesn't have "playmaker" skills at the levels we want to play at.

This is Matthew Hoppe's problem. He was maybe good enough to be the freelancer on a Gold Cup team that was C team in terms of attacking talent -- your best attacking players on that were off ball guys like Arriola or Zardes.

But he's not that guy for any high level club team and he's not that guy for a full level USMNT now. Someday (I doubt it) he's Clint Dempsey and great, but for now, go where you are supposed to, dude.

I thought he played a much more defined role for us this January and actually looked pretty good doing it.

 

I think we are limited on how many guys we have who are truly capable of the freelancing role, particularly in terms of creating team movements. That's what Donovan and Dempsey always brought in the past, especially Donovan. Right now, we have Pulisic, but he's up top on the wing where it is not as easy to retreat to get the ball and then freelance. On the wing, he's mostly going to get the ball and go to goal. It's more beat players and attack directly than create through more complex movements with multiple players. And Dest starts so deep that he's never going to be more than an occasional option. I think McKennie was the most natural choice as far as how the team is setup but I'm not sure he's all that great at it. This is where having more dribblers as attackers and not enough passers makes things difficult This is also why I think Gio could end up being so important to this team. He's one of the few guys we have who can play all over the field and has good vision to see the space and the gaps as well as the technical skills to execute. He still needs to improve, not saying he's the final answer here and now, but he's at least got the tools to do the job more so than just about anyone else we have.

 

Yep.

It's also about everyone understanding the moment to do it AND having people back them up.

One of the things I disliked about our offense in the end of Berhalter's run was the lack of numerical overloads really anywhere. I don't think Berhalter doesn't know HOW to do it -- I think he was keeping everyone home to defend.

But these shouldn't be "nevers" or "always" -- that gets you killed. You need a central midfielder, for example, to recognize the moment and swing wide to give a 3 (CM,W,FB) on 2 (FB, CB) moment when it is there, and you need the other CMs and opposite side FB to recognize that and compensate*

Berhalter tried to not have to do this by basically having the CF play that role a lot coming back -- Man City did this a lot with Jesus allowing the CMs to be creative without really getting out of position a ton -- but our CFs simply weren't that good and our wingers just so-so are actually scoring (though our best options).

I think if you look at our roster this kind of makes some sense ... except the CFs simply weren't good enough for it.

Earlier in Berhalter's run we had a lot more McKennie-as-overload guy. Even in some of the WCQ. I wonder how much of this was McKennie injury and how much was conservatism.

I think the offense is vastly more effective when McKennie is involved.

(*I think this is what people miss a lot when they love a Hoppe or a Williamson or even Scally when he was struggling to pick up assignments** -- the inability of some players to read and be in the right spot on defense actually limits the offense's ability to take risks effectively and a coach compensates for that.)

(**Obligatory, I don't think this is an issue for Scally long term but he definitely struggled to understand assignments in his first couple caps.)

 

"skills on the pitch" - Weah brings clarity to his position on the right wing. That's important when the game goes hurly burly and cmids/backs are looking for an outlet target. It's one ingredient the team should have. The pattern Weah showed Pulisic on the goal v. Wales made it easy for Pulisic to lay off the perfect pass, something Pulisic often has a problem with.

 

About Hoppe,his club did start him in Real Madrid game. We don’t know what happened after that.

 

Cannon fodder against RM.