Japan's October Vacation: vs Tunisia (10/8), vs Romania (10/11)

skipshady · Oct 21, 2003

I know this is a few days old, but I thought I should address this.

Bolded parts posted by Matsu
Still, Lets take that as a starting point, and consider this in comparison with other leading teams -- say Germany, England and Holland (who have all played quite a few matches recently so they make a good comparison). Germany has used just 16 players as starters in their last 7 matches. England 14 and Holland 15. That suggests that it is "typical" to change 2-3 players TOTAL over the course of six or eight matches.
Apples and oranges. The three teams you mention are fighting for Euro 2004 qualifications. Those matches are must win (or draw as the case maybe). Japan's mission in friendlies is not to win matches, but to build a squad.

About the players you mention below, I clearly stated that I was talking about Zico's lineup from the Paraguay match on. Since then, he has stuck with basically the same lineup barring injury and availability. Players used before the Paraguay match, therefore, are irrelevant to this discussion.

Sogahata (has been replaced by two other players: Narazaki and Kawaguchi)
I've already addressed this. This is one position where Zico has rotated players. Though he's not really learning anything new about these players, is he?

Miyamoto (has been replaced by three other players: Akita, Moniwa and Nakazawa)
He only missed the recent road trip because of his injury in the shower. Otherwise, he has played every match beginning with the Paraguay draw.

Yamada (has been replaced by two other players: Narahashi and Kaji)
Santos (has been replaced by three other players: Hattori, Nakanishi and Miura)
Tsuboi (has been replaced by three other players: Morioka, Matsuda and Nakazawa)
Started every match except vs Tunisia, which they were unavailable for because of Nabisco Cup. Sure enough, even with the jet lag, all 3 started vs Romania.

Endo (has been replaced by three other players: Ogasawara, Nakata K. and Ono)
Inamoto (has been replaced by two other players: Ogasawara and Fukunishi)
Nakata H. (has been replaced by two other players: Nakamura and Santos)
Nakamura (has been replaced by two other players: Nakata K. and Ono)
Well, Endo was just a stand-in while Ono recovered from injury. Inamoto missed vs Paraguay and vs Colombia (yellow cards) and Nakamura missed vs Colombia (injury). Otherwise, same midfield every time.

Yanagisawa (has been replaced by four other players: Okubo, Suzuki, Yamashita and Nakayama)
Okubo (has been replaced by two other players: Takahara and Nakayama)
Yanagisawa wasn't available until the Nigeria match so he wasn't ever "replaced".
Takahara has played every match he was available for, and Okubo played in place of either Yanagi or Taka. And you don't really believe that we're learning anything (or even gaining anything) by playing Suzuki or Gon Nakayama, do you?

Personally, I think that experimentation is still needed, but it is pretty hard to argue that Zico is "too dedicated to the same players", based on that data, unless you were to completely ignore the fact that he is under extreme (and in my opinion, unneccessary) pressure to get victories every time the team plays.
You and I agree on one thing, that the pressure to win friendlies is unneccessary. I'd rather watch us lose 10-0 to Argentina if it helps us perform in the Asian Cup and the World Cup. But beginning with the Paraguay match, the 10 field players that started against Senegal have started every match they were available for, except Inamoto vs Paraguay. I don't believe that the talent pool is so thin that he has to use those 10 players whenever possible.

If Japan are still playing like this by the time the finals of the Asian Cup arrive, then it will be time to start worrying. As it is, this is just a tempest in a teapot (and a meaningless one at that, since it is abundantly clear that Kawabuchi is not going to change horses in midstream).
Agreed. But if Kawabuchi is going to remain steadfast against media criticism, why is Zico coaching like a man with no job security and going for wins in friendlies?

Matsu · Oct 21, 2003

Originally posted by skipshady
If Kawabuchi is going to remain steadfast against media criticism, why is Zico coaching like a man with no job security and going for wins in friendlies?
Click to expand...

If you honestly need to ask this question, then we are starting out this discussion at points so far apart that it is unlikely we will ever meet.

I pointed out that Zico has used other players than his chosen "best eleven". This is a fact. And regardless of whether or not you think it is the result of "extenuating circumstances", the bottom line is that Zico has had a chance to see quite a few different players in the positions that may require changes or alternative options. You contend that this is "accidental" rather than "by design". But that doesnt change the number of players who Zico has seen, in game situations.

We agree that this is a time when Zico should be looking at various players. And perhaps we will see more potions over the remainder of this year, when European players are not available. The problem, however, is that there really arent that many other options available. How many players can you name that have a reasonable chance of doing better than the players who Zico is already using? Seriously. If you think Zico needs to try other options, who would you rather see? (And please dont suggest proven losers like Nishizawa, Kubo, Toda, or someone like that. Id like to hear the names of some players who are a SERIOUS option that Zico hasnt already tried).

Excluding players who are already on the list posted earlier, the only players I can think of who MIGHT make useful additions are aged 22 or younger, and Zico already has a chance to see them perform on the U-22 or U-20 team. Though he has made a few exceptions (particularly with Okubo), Zico is following an established pattern by not including young players in the full NT until after the Olympics is over. After summer 2004, you may see some of these youngsters included. But apart from them, who else has done anything to indicate that they deserve to be on the team? Sure, it would be great if we could try putting Ruud van Nistelroy at striker, or playing Roberto Carlos at left wing back. But unfortunately, they arent Japanese.

You are absolutely right when you say that Zico should NOT be treating these friendly matches as matches that he has to win. But the problem is, he started out doing exactly that -- experimenting with various players rather than worrying about wins or losses -- and the result was that every sportswriter in the country started calling for his head.

Even if Zico's job IS safe, he doesnt have the sort of latitude for experimenting that most national team coaches have. This is Japan . . . .

. . . and if you dont understand what that last statement implies, you will just have to accept that we will never agree on this issue.

n00bie deluxe · Oct 24, 2003

Probably the only flexibility Zico has in the lineup is in the back 4, and he has virtually tried out a variety of players there, and only once did they get killed (the 2nd ARG) game. The rest of the spots are pretty much taken and I don't think there's a lot of room for change - that is until the U-23 shows what it has in the Olympics.