Jan 6, 2022 - The Continuation Foul

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by soccernutter, Jan 7, 2022.

  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    EDIT: this is a response to bigred

    You just compared Cary Grant to Harvey Weinstein and Rudy Giuliani.

    I get it, just making a casual observation.

    I could vaguely get it if, for example, George Clooney or Brad Pitt were doing this. The two dudes I named are physically repulsive.
     
  2. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    IMO the Brand fiasco also clearly reveals that a lot of men - especially powerful ones - believe that men should be allowed to do this. Musk and co basically say this is not a crime, not a problem, and just fine and great. We saw the same over Tate.
     
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  3. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    1.They've been told all their lives that power is attractive (which it is.)
    2. They perceive themselves to be powerful men. (Maybe yes, maybe no?)
    3. They assume if it attracts some, it attracts all. (Wishful thinking.)
    4. Sometimes people find the damnedest looks attractive. There's an extremely attractive woman (consensus opinion, not just mine) here who likes cowboys. But not just any cowboys-- kind of frog faced ones, preferably with black rimmed glasses, and preferably kind of short and stocky.

    You'd think in a town this size the supply would be limited, but she found about 4 or 5 over 20 years or so before settling on a guy of the same general build and skull shape, but a quite presentable sunny sort of face-- a copper blonde where the others all had had greyish tan, not even brunette, hair-- and married him.

    He is a cowboy, but he owns the ranch-- money is also attractive.
     
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  4. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No--I was saying that a genuinely attractive man like Cary Grant portrayed a fantasy that other not-attractive (but wealthy and powerful in those cases, but I'm looking beyond famous examples to the culture at large) men bought into...and also used to delude themselves. Because the different between Grant's persona and their sordid reality was that Grant's characters very much did NOT want to ******** children or exploit unwilling younger women. The culture helped these men lie to themselves about what was really going on and what was driving the dynamic.
     
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  5. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not at all; just pointing out an underlying factor and a broad cultural issue that happens outside the workplace as well.

    Almost every woman could probably tell us a story about how the adult men in her life/neighborhood treated her in an inappropriately sexual way when she was still a child.
     
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  6. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    #4 has its limits though and thus doesn't apply in the case of Weinstein or Guiliani. But also confidence, which they probably both have (certainly Weinstein does) is both attractive and leads to delusion.
     
  7. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or just sexual assault, in general. It's not we have a thread dedicated to this stuff.
     
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  8. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In this respect, you are blaming Hutchinson for the actions of Rudy. Blame the victim should be beyond you.
     
  9. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Hi

    71f57f20-be3c-4bb2-9346-ea3204ae7e2c.jpeg
     
  10. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think guys THAT powerful just assume that looks, personality, charm, etc., simply don't matter. I'm not so sure Harvey Weinstein convinced himself that all those young, beautiful aspiring actresses found him attractive; he just assumed they couldn't say No.

    I was addressing a broader cultural issue. Middle-aged businessmen being wildly inappropriate with the 17 year-old hostess at the country club, for example.
     
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  11. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Harvey was doing what studio heads have been doing for 100+ years. You wanna work in this town & make Miramax films you'll comply with my disgusting face & body. Dude was under no illusion that he was attractive.
     
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  12. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly.

    What changed is that people thought Hollywood in the post-studio system era/post-Sixties would do better.
     
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  13. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We are talking about sexual assault and/or rape. How does attractiveness play into this?
     
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  14. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Cary Grant went for girls named Judy! :geek:
     
  15. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was riffing on the question of how older men delude themselves into thinking younger women would be attracted to them. That delusion helps fuel their harassing behavior.

    We are not talking about the 'attractiveness' of the victims (nor should we).
     
  16. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    How quickly you all forgot what Trump said. Remember, if you're famous, which Giuliani is: "They let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the pussy."

    Now, ask again why Giuliani thinks this way when Trump said out loud what such people think.
     
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  17. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    It doesnt. All power trips.

    Think about how blase people were about rockstars with underage girls & groupies 50 years ago. The Led Zeppelin shark story comes to mind. R Kelly proves that it still happens. But now you'll actually be penalized for your disgusting behavior. Well Roman Polanski wasnt...the 70s. But it's taken more seriously anyway. Even Lizzo apparently being nasty to her dancers is not tolerated.
     
  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Riiiiight
     
  19. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nobody was talking about the attractiveness of the victims.
     
  20. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What, exactly, are you asking, then?

    Are you not following the conversation; are you arguing that we've veered off-topic (which, in the narrowest sense, we have, but I think we're talking about the broader cultural context); or something else?

    If you know the answer to your own question, why are you asking it?
     
  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Right - which is why they all reflexively defend Brand
     
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  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Polanski was offered probation for drugging and raping a 13 year-old. He fled the US when he heard the judge wasn't happy with the deal.

    Back in the 1980s someone I have become aware of dressed as a cop, pulled over female drivers and raped them in the back of his fake squad car. He only served 5 years. He's just been found guilty of molesting his daughter back in 2002 for which he's been given another 20.

    In short I'm glad these things are finally being taken seriously.

    If Brand is not guilty then at least by being in the UK he won't be part of a media frenzy, as there are strict limitations in what can be said and reported during an investigation.
     
  23. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kissinger was Adonis compared to Rudy today and Weinstein his whole life
     
  24. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was rhetorical. Hutchinson was sexually assaulted (as were the victims of Weinstein, since he was brought up). Whether or not they are considered attractive should not matter when we are talking about the behavior or sexual assault. To me, saying that one may be attractive put some blame on the victim. Some, not all. But the victim should never be blamed.
     
  25. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I think the spirit of the original comments were not to put any blame on the victim, but to show the perpetrators were so self-deluded that they didn't know what league they were in.
     
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