http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/mls/story/De-Los-Cobos-a-bust-in-Chicago This article had to be written at some point. The truth is, this team has been run into the ground. Old problems like home form have not been corrected. New problems like road form and crappy defense have emerged. Another problem that has popped up is ceding late goals. CDLC has taken a championship contender and turned them into DC United light. In the middle of a playoff hunt the team has not won in seven games. Did this ever happen under Hammer? Where are all the Hammer haters now? Stand up, be counted and admit you were wrong.
I was not wrong. Hamlett was wrong for this team as well. He lucked into every victory he got. The team was playing the same boring, defensive crap. This team is now worse, as some of the worst decision making in the history of mankind has run this team into the ground, but to say that Hamlett staying would be better? I don't think so. I really want to know what Freddie Ljungberg has to say about the coaching. He's the only one who's had anything even remotely interesting to say about the status of the team. De Los Cobos was not who I wanted to see coaching the team. Neither was Hamlett. They really should listen to me more often.
Lucked into every victory? Sober up before you come on the internet. You are also implying that if Hammer was the coach this year also that the team would have an even worse record. That is hardly possible. Try again. And Jose Mourinho was a little to busy to coach the Fire this year. Sorry.
I was one who thought it was time to replace Denise. I still think that was the right choice. Truthfully, I defended Hamlett, to an extent. Moreso I defended our record, and our standing. Last year people were ready to blow it up in the middle of the season. I said wait til the playoffs to start swinging the ax. When we got to the ECF, and dropped it, I was ready to fully let go. Just because DLC wasn't the right choice as replacement doesn't mean the former coach didn't need replaced. I'm unhappy with the choice of new coach, not unhappy with the choice not to retain the old coach.
If you're gonna replace someone who's been successful then you damn well better get it right. Your delusional if think otherwise and last year's coach didn't need to be replaced. Would DLC have the balls to bench Blanco when he showed up outta shape? Hamlett did and Blanco finally admitted midway through the season that he was out of shape. You guys may have a personal dislike for DH and I have no idea why but the logic you guys are using to trash him is bizarro world like and needs to stop. This season's bust doesn't have a damn thing to do with him. Fonsos
OK, let's hire Hamlett back. Can someone give me the phone number of the MLS club that signed him the instant he was free? 100% correct. Just last two years' busts.
You make some pretty good points here but again it goes back to results. We lost in the semi-finals two years in a row to teams that ended up winning it, once on penalty kicks and the other time to a team that was flat-out better. We lost the Superliga trophy on penalty kicks. Tough luck there. But to sack the coach for this? Not in my book, unless you replace him with a coach who is (more or less) a sure bet.........but how many of those were around and available? This has all the marks of an owner who thinks he is playing fantasy football, I am afraid. But at least he is willing to open up the check book for players.
This isn't fair and there is a huge difference between the two. For lack of a better description, we were in constant counter-attack mode under Hamlett (that's not really true but bare with me). We defended as a team, but when we got possession we got forward and we got forward with numbers. Yea, it was a pretty direct style, but I posted some stats that demonstrate that over the course of the season, we created tons of chances the two years under Hamlett. In addition, he did take into account the team we were playing in fashioning a tactical plan. Something Carlos has never done. I remember once last year after Mapp played fairly well and was benched the next game . . . I think against NE. This had many on here in an uproar because they were looking backwards at the last game and not at the opponent. Denis talked about their midfield and how we needed high energy guys to put pressure on Joseph and Ralston? (can't remember if he was around at the time). The point is that things were happening that weren't "luck" even if you didn't agree with them. He also kept the team motivated. We went through a tough stretch of injuries that was worse than anything this year and came out of it in decent shape so that we could get hot down the stretch. That is what happened compared to our miserable record this year with the playoffs on the line. When Denis got hired and some were not happy, I said, "he's ready. Give him two years. With this veteran team, we should win it all in those two years." We didn't and so while I wouldn't have fired him because we lost a couple of crap shoots, I had no problem with the decision. But to compare him and Carlos ain't fair. Maybe some of it has to do with Carlos lack of knowledge about the Fire, the league and the teams he faces. Who knows. But he has shown zero creativity regardless of the opponent and his team is half-assing it precisely at the time that Denis' teams were turning up the heat and getting in good position for the playoffs. I understand why people didn't like our style under Denis, but at least it was effective from a results standpoint. Now, we have ugly, ugly soccer that is a dead bang loser.
Lemme ask this question cause based on the logic of some of my fellow Fire fans, would you have canned Stevie Nichols since he's never won it all with the Revolution? If not, then explain how it's ok to get rid of Denis but not Nichols? I'm trying to follow the logic. Fonsos
I said that the team was worse this year. I think Hamlett lucked into every victory. I think the team has won matches under De Los Cobos in spite of his coaching. I'd say that's a definite win for the Prince of Denmark. I wanted Hamlett gone this year. I confess that. But I wanted Wynalda and Marsch to coach/asst. I wanted Sarachan gone a few years ago, but I wanted John Spencer to coach.
You are probably correct. It's not fair. I'm angry and absolutely not delving into my vast knowledge of soccer tactics and statistics to form my arguments. The truth is, I'm probably not really comparing the two, really. I'm saying that I am bored with the style we're playing this year, and that it's not working. I don't like watching the team at the moment (with a few exceptions), and I think the tactics, even on a cursory level, are horrific and seem to have no basis in logic. I was also bored watching Hamlett's team play. Now, don't get me wrong. I was always a defender when I played, and I was pretty good. I love to watch defense. I love to watch a team's star player get utterly shut down. I loved watching Conde when he was happy and playing for Osorio. I like defense. But this team just isn't working for me right now. Now, it's also not fair because I compare everything to a time when players from other teams seemed scared to come play the Fire at home. They answered interview questions by stating that they were afraid to come to our house. It was almost a given that they'd lose. Now... it's a pretty damned good bet that they're gonna come out with at least a point. How sad is that? I'm also looking at this from the perspective of a person who wants this team taken seriously. It upsets me that people are bringing people to first matches at which they're seeing abysmal soccer. I doubt they're coming back... or they feel vindicated in thinking that soccer isn't very interesting.
I think what Ives conveniently omits from his article is the reason for Hammie's dismissal. When you go after a player, you cross the line and you give your enemies all the ammunition they need. As far as this season goes, whatever rapport existed between the keeper and the back line was thrown out the window before the season started. Nothing like using the first game of the season to start over from scratch. Then it became a series of gambles that didn't pay off. The guys CldC brought with him were useless. I hope I never see Umanzor suit up again. John - useless. The late additions of Ljungberg and Castillo remind me of playing pick up games. Nobody knows where anyone is going. Mixing up the lineup only adds to the lack of confidence the players have in each other and in their coach.
I believe that if Denis was still coaching the Fire, the Fire would not be any better off. I agree with TinManJoshua's point that Denis was a bad fit for the Fire head coaching position (and, apparently, every other MLS head coaching job, since there has been little interest in him since his dismissal from the Fire). This does not mean that Denis was evil or a bad person or that I "hate" him. The term "________hater" really bothers me. I don't hate anyone connected with MLS-except maybe Richie Williams and Ben Olsen, but, then again, who doesn't? And if push comes to shove, I probably don't actually "hate" Williams or Olsen (as much as it pains me to admit that). Dick Cheney, I hate, anyone connected to soccer, probably not so much. However, Denis was not a good head coach...and neither has De Los Cobos been a good coach, either. Denis gets more crap that CDLC (at least until the last couple of weeks) because Denis was a Fire "lifer" and the Fire played awful (albeit, somewhat successful) soccer under Denis. I would not go so far as to say he "lucked into" every victory, but I doubt I could point out more than one or two occasions where his tactics or coaching steered the Fire to victory (not that the coach in soccer can do that much). The Fire played boring, defensive-minded, crap soccer under Denis. He also did not inspire much confidence. Dave the Short and Denis just seemed unsuited for the role. Osorio and CDLC seem more suited-more professional, more professorial. However, the results have not be there. Getting back on topic vis a vis CDLC. It is puzzling why CDLC has failed as Fire head coach. Not knowing the players? Not knowing the league? Underestimating opponents? Who knows? Bog-knows, it has been discussed on this here Big Soccer, but for whatever reasons, he has failed. Should the Fire give him another year? You look at his resume and think "Probably." You watch the games the Fire has played, as we all have, and you say "Hell, no." Once again, the Fire have played boring, defensive-minded, crap soccer, like under Denis (and under Dave the Short, as well). Perhaps the problem is not the coach, but the whole culture of the Fire has changed since Bob Bradley (and then Peter Wilt) left. I really don't know.
Simplifying the situation to this level is absurd. There are so many variables and you're ignoring basically all of them because they don't support your argument. What you're saying is the only way to judge a coach is based on one factor (a team's record), which is a childish argument. Denis inherited a veteran team that was in the Eastern Conference Finals. He couldn't advance the team. Instead he ran off many veteran players and we stagnated. The Denis argument is old and tired. The more I hear it the more I hope de los Cobos stays. Denis Hamlett wasn't going to get us out of the past and to the next level. We need a coach with a vision of the future and Denis wasn't it. Is it de los Cobos*? Maybe not, but I'm not looking in the rear view mirror. Kinner in Houston inherited a championship team and as the team dissipates, his quality (or lack thereof) as a manager is beginning to show. Nowak, Kreis and Warzycha are two of a new breed of coaches that seem to be doing well. The only solid old timers appear to be Sigi and Yallop. I'm sure I'm missing some examples but I think the old guard (Onalfo, Hamlett) are on the way out and a new era of coaching is coming. What coach is going to bring this organization into the next era of MLS? I saw good signs early on with de los Cobos but I'm obviously severely disappointed by the season. If he's our coach again I have to hope he can learn from his mistakes and build on his successes for next season. I'm still not going to look in the rear view mirror though. As an aside, I don't believe that the entirety of our club's problems even stem from the coach. We've been struggling for years and through several coaches. *Originally, I accidentally spelled his name "de lose Cobos". EDIT: Oh, and Ives is a stupid twat.
Your response is absurd. A) It's that damn simple B) Steve Nicol got his team to 3 MLS Cup Finals and lost all of them, I mean you think he would have gotten it right after the 2nd one --gheesh and his teams also lost the MLS Conference Finals a few times but yet my comparison is absurd. Which ones? Lemme see Soumare was already looking to get to France before the "Bust-Up". Rolfe was at the end of a contract and looking to leave. Segares hadn't made a decision to leave and didn't til after the season ended. He had an opportunity to make more money and play in Europe. (Holding my hands out like a scale) Europe vs Fire, Europe vs. Fire....EUROPE!!! No Brainer!!!! Blanco wasn't coming back the talk that he was beforehand was BullSh..T!!! He wasn't happy in Chicago - simple as that. Who did I miss, I'm sure in my haste to respond to your ABSURD response, I missed a few. ...How in the Hell do you know? Again, it's ok to not can Steve Nicol (and yes I know he's a great coach) despite not having won jack and getting a team he created to multiple finals et al. Kinnear was also misspelled and originally I misspelled Nicol. Ben et al it's that simple and thanks to an owner whom had personal issues with last year's headcoach and thanks to an owner not allowing the people who actually know the game and are competent at what they do actually do it, we're arguiing about the lousy season we're having. Actually, you being part of Section 8, Why are you guys so QUIET (sang it) about this matter? The TIFO was very nice, it really was and RESPECT for it but to not call this team out and especially after Saturday's fiasco also makes we wonder when did leaders of Section 8 get bought by Hauptman? Maybe you guys posted something on your website or some other places and I missed it but I don't recall hearing you guys call out this organization on the mess that it alone created. Right now, people arguing and about not having DH and the success we did have under him makes me wonder when did I enter the world of Bizarro. What are your issues with Ives? I guess Hauptman must have told you that you have issues with him now. Fonsos
Actually, it is not puzzling at all if you looked at his resume. CDLC is a coaching vagabond who has not won anything anywhere, always moving on from one job to the next within a year or two of arrival. How management decided he would be a great fit is beyond me. Here were the problems with his hire: 1. Foreign.......they don't seem to succeed here 2. No championships anywhere 3. Never lasts anywhere beyond a a couple seasons. A resume like that should have had Fire management looking elsewhere, perhaps to a rookie coach.
Wait, so DLC is really a sculpture of the head, neck and sometimes shoulders? That would explain a great deal. Shouldn't this be in the Run-DLC Career Deathwatch thread? Oh, and just because DLC sucks doesn't mean Hamlett didn't also suck. The two suckings are not mutually exclusive.
How long did it take for you to do that much basic research? If it's that simple for you and I, how on Earth did the genius who owns this club F...k this UP??? This is mind boggling Sh..t and I should be taking notes for some type of Social Phenomena research. Fonsos
As usual Fonsos, you attack the person instead of the argument. I all that "deflection". All of the players you mention were looking to leave when Hamlett was the coach. That much is true. Even if all of the anecdotes you mention about these players are true none of your points would give any evidence to support the argument you're trying to make. My time in the board is done. I believe it's time to let the new board for the ISA step up. Over the past six years I've lodged more complaints with the FO both publicly and privately than I care to remember.**It is telling though, that not complaining enough to you means something's wrong with a person. I believe in constructive criticism and positive action. Armchair quarter backing and Internet sniping is negative energy and a waste of time. If you want the ISA to step up in some fashion it's up to YOU to get involved. I highly recommend everyone attend the next meeting and get involved. I believe there's one tomorrow (Wednesday) night at the Pitch. I thought the players put in a good effort on Saturday. I have no complaints at that level. It's the world of Bizarro that doesn't want to acknowledge a multitude of factors beyond just the coach that go into a winning (or losing) season.** Wish we could chat more tomorrow at The Pitch but it looks like we have a long off season ahead of us.**
Former captains who have been around the league for a little while as players and/or assistant coaches. Wonder if there is something to that formula.
Just use the eyeball test. If your eyes tell you a team is playing like crap, they're playing like crap. If a team makes the playoffs on the last game of the season two years running while being stacked that says something about the coach. Nichols is one hell of a coach, Denis isn't in the same galaxy, just use your eyes next time, you'll see.
Unintentional comedy quote of the year courtesy of Frank Klopas last winter: "You look at Salt Lake, with Jason Kreis," Klopas said. "I'm not taking anything away because they won a championship, but if I take Jason Kreis and compare him to Carlos de los Cobos and who they are - that's not taking anything away from Jason - I'm just saying you have a guy with tremendous experience, tremendous knowledge of the game." Oh dear. Frank must have tossed a few back at Greek Islands before this quote.