Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] I know you guys don't hold him as a TOP PROSPECT since your talent pool is very vast. Offcourse when we see Rossi its like WOW this kid is amazing. To you guys its like mmmmmmmmm ya hes OK. hehe How does Italy run their camp callups before WC, SueB??? Do they get straight to business or do they open their doors for alot of guys to come in a show what they got. I know the US is gonna call atleast 30+ easily which will begin on January
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] For NEXT year's World Cup you mean?! Italy's pretty much got its base squad for next summer established, and barring injury or other unforeseen circumstances (including perhaps, as I've mentioned elsewhere, a meteoric rise to world stardom by a virtually unknown youngster), there won't be too many changes. There is pretty much zero chance that Giuseppe Rossi will be on Italy's World Cup team next year. (Of course, this being BigSoccer, I hope that doesn't end up on anyone's sig ).
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] Good point, Sue. Then consider someone like Tavano at Empoli, who also plays as a withdrawn striker. This guy oozes class and is scoring almost at will in his first season in Serie A. But he has yet to even be considered for the national team. Stiff competition for Rossi, to say the least.
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] That's true ... I only thought of players already in the national team pool. But there are plenty of others in Serie A - like Francesco Tavano - who never played in the age-level national teams but certainly have the talent - and more importantly, the first-team experience - to rate ahead of Rossi right now. Tavano was one of the leading scorers in Serie B last year, and he's holding his own in the Serie A scoring race this year. Yet most people have never heard of him.
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] When we talk about a #10, we mean a hole player who could potentially replace Totti on the NT. And the fact is, Pirlo is the only one who could do that now for the Azzurri in Totti's absence. These players people are mentioning--Palladini, Miccoli, etc.--are not hole players but secondo puntas, support strikers who work with big center-forwards a la Lucarelli, Toni ......... When Totti retires, supposedly after WC 06, we'll need a new #10. Since we want Pirlo to play as a deep-lying middie, I expect that there won't be many true candidates for Totti's role. Di Michele is a legitimate hole player, and Cassano could try his hand at it (though he prefers dribbling to passing), but I think Rossi could get a call-up by then if he's still available to Italy. Remember, he's playing for Manchester United--that means he'll get tons of publicity if he continues to play well. More than the likes of Tavano certainly . . . .
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] The article refers to Totti as a "small forward". I was the one who mentioned that Totti was more of a #10 than a small forward. Well, I haven't seen Rossi play enough to know if he's a "hole player" or a "small forward". Do you know? I was simply going off the comment in the SA article quoted above that calls for a "small forward" ("seconda punta"). I don't really consider the #10 position - behind the attackers - to be a "small forward", but I guess some do. Totti can and has played both roles, so that comparison didn't really help. The highlight clips (admittedly not the best way to judge somebody) I've seen of Rossi are of him running at people and going to goal, so I thought of him as being more of a front-runner than a playmaker. Di Michele is certainly another good example of a "small forward" who is leaps and bounds ahead of Rossi on the depth chart despite not really being in the national team pool.
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] This thread is really depressing me. Our forward options consist of a Tottenham reserve, a Coca-Cola Championship striker, a 20-year-old playing with one of the relegation favourites in the Premiership, and Gary Doherty. Gary bloody Doherty. Wanna swap? I'll let you have first pick
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] Haven't read the article, but Totti is as classic a #10 as you can get. Plays behind the strikers, feeds them passes. Giuseppe Rossi is the same style of player, from what I have seen. And in interviews he's described himself as a hole player rather than an out and out striker. . . . Another thing. If, as you say, Di Michele is a support striker, then how would Rossi be in competition with him?
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] The article I'm talking about is the one posted above by Shaster, which refers to Rossi as a "small forward" (although now that I re-read it, it's not clear where the article ends and Shaster's comments begin). The question was asked how many "small forwards" in the Italian talent pool would rate ahead of Rossi. That's the question I've been answering. If Rossi is really a #10, then the talent pool is clearly quite different. Of course, Totti can play both. Same with Landon Donovan. If Rossi's really like those guys, well, then, his prospects just improved greatly in my eyes.
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] From what the guys on the Man Utd board are saying, that's the type of player he sounds like. They're wondering how and if Rossi and Rooney can play on the same team.
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] Based on articles I've read Rossi is a "seconda punta" which in today's game means he can wear any number, from 1-99. Tavano wears 10 for Empoli but leads the attacking line. Totti wears the 10 jersey and has also lead the attacking line (when he and Cassano formed Roma's attacking tandem), but now plays behind the strikers. Then you have a player like ADP, who also wears the 10 jersey, but insists that he does not belong behind the strikers, but up front, next to or slightly behind another striker. This doesn't mean he won't drop into the hole for space in which to turn and create something with a pass or dribbling move. The "10" concept is very vague and really just refers to a universal skill set and creative capacity. Di Michele is another "10" who absolutely does not position himself like Totti (behind the strikers), but instead roams along the front line from right to left and then occasionally drops into the whole to collect the ball. A better word for these players is "fantasista." In fact, there was a long in article in the Gazzetta last years about role of "fantasista." Di Michele was cited as a perfect example... From what I can tell Rossi is a "seconda punta", who wears the 10 jersey and has the skills and tactical dispostion similar to that of most fantasistas. According to an interview I read in some on-line Man U. journal, his primary function on the field is scoring goals and providing assists. He will drop into the hole to pick up the ball and find freedom from his marker, but he never stations himself there like Totti. In this role, for Italy, there really is no one at the moment. Lippi has been playing with two of four large strikers (Toni, Gila, Vieri, Iaquinta), none of whom is really adept at dropping into the hole to collaborate with Totti. Lippi pushes ADP out wide left and only seems to consider an in-form Cassano as a "fantasista" alternative to the double "prima punta" or large-forward solution. He ignores other small forwards like Di Michele, Di Natale, and Miccoli. Tavano has yet to pop up on his radar (although a call up wouldn't surprise me should his current form continue). So I really wouldn't consider Rossi at the bottom of the "seconda punta" hierarchy because there really is none to speak of. If he were to have a meteoric rise at Manchester, the Italian press would start to consider him a striking alternative for the Azzurri. When that happens, whose to say Lippi wouldn't give him a shot.
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] That's a really nice summary, FutSavWor. There are so many nuances to consider when talking about forwards. I guess one reason I included the more classic type of second forward in my list - a smaller, quicker frontrunner who plays off of a bigger, stronger targetman - is that this setup is what Lippi seems to be favoring at the moment. As you say, there doesn't appear to be room for the more creative types like Cassano, Miccoli or DiMichele in his squad. Could Lippi change his mind? How likely is it that Rossi makes a Rooney-like rise this year? Even if he does, there would likely be little public outcry to call him up to the Azzurri since most Italians don't follow the EPL. It's a shame - and certainly a valid criticism of the Italian game - that most Italian coaches are averse to risk-taking and therefore very conservative in their team selection (not to mention tactics). I still stand by my belief that there is almost zero chance Rossi will be on Italy's World Cup squad in Germany.
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] Certainly. But remember I didn't argue that Lippi would choose Rossi--matter of fact it's not even clear Lippi will choose Cassano. But I did say, and it's worth saying, that after Totti retires for the Azzurri (2006, supposedly) we'll need to experiment with some different hole players who can take on the fantasista mantel. If Rossi continues to impress, he'll get a shot IMO. It's interesting to note that the English media is crazy about him. In Italy, I understand he's only known, along with Lupoli, as being the source of a scandal--namely that Parma lost its two best youth players to the EPL.
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] Sempre, you're missing the important point that I'm not arguing with you. All of my posts about Rossi have pretty much been directed toward trying to answer Shaster's original question as to how many players are ahead of Rossi in the Azzurri depth chart (right now) and then dmike's question as to whether Rossi has a shot at making Italy's WC squad for next summer. The reason these questions are being asked - I think - is that some American fans think he has a shot at making the US team for next summer and that he might be tempted to switch nationalities if he doesn't have any (immediate) prospects for making it to the Azzurri. Which he doesn't, IMO.
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] okay Sue, here's a tough one. I saw an HBO story on racism in European soccer. Does Italy even consider Rossi pure enough to be Italian?
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] Pure??? He's not trying to play for Nazi Germany. If Camoranesi is "pure" enough, then Rossi would certainly be accepted being the child of Italian immigrants. I certainly don't think race or ethnicity should be an issue at all. Any player with strong enough an emotional attachment to Italy or Italian soccer is valid in my book. I think most Italians would feel this way. Particularly if he scores goals...
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] FutSavWor is correct. The history of the Azzurri is riddled with oriundi - players from other countries (Argentina, typically) of Italian heritage. Mauro Camoranesi is a current example. Except for a few who might complain (there are always some), nobody gives it much thought.
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] Thanks to Scotty for translating an interview with Rossi from Il Giornale at this thread: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6516709#post6516709 The original article, in Italian: http://www.ilgiornale.it/a.pic1?ID=37263 Interesting snippet: Who do you feel that you resemble? “I’m left-footed, but I’m good with my right, too. Those who have coached me compare me to Raul at Real Madrid; a forward with mobility.”
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] New, long, Rossi compilation. http://rapidshare.de/files/6407580/Giuseppe_Rossi_by_Easy_V.wmv.html
Lately he has been playing as a lone striker. But he operates in a withdrawn position when Riganò is playing with him. The point I'm trying to make is that he is easily capable of playing the 'seconda punta', but has yet to even be considered for the national team.
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] He is absolutely capable play as a "seconda punta" for the Azzurri. His versatility may also impress Lippi. I'm curious to see if Empoli continue to use him as thier most advanced striker. They've won 2 consecutive games with him leading the line. Does anyone know if Rigano's exclusion is a tatical decision or due to injury?
Re: Italy's Class of '87 (U-19s) [R] It seems that some of those on the "Yanks abroad" forum are interpreting Rossi's interview as evidence of alienation from Italian soccer. Some take it a step further and suggest that his happiness with English Football somehow translates into being open to eventual USMNT call-ups. This may be the case, but I personally am in no way lead to believe this based on the interview. It makes perfect sense that a rising star of English football would praise the culture of his new home. I wouldn't risk insulting my benefactor and the vehicle I intend to ride to fame by suggesting a move to another squad. Rossi's words seem practical and in tune with what any newly succesful foreigner would say about life in England and the Premiership. I bet if Arturo Lupoli were interviewed after achieving Rossi's level of recognition, he would speak just as positively about English football and possibly more disparagingly about Italian football culture. This is not to say that Rossi doesn't truly love English football and Man U. But I would guess if there was any sort of ambivalence, he would suppress it in favor of praise for his new lifestyle. Another point discussed in the "Yanks Abroad" forum are the supposed implications of Rossi speaking English first. I too was taught English before Italian by my immigrant parents. I slowly started learning Italian as a child and now speak it with great fluency. Rossi must have been exposed to the language throughout his childhood via trips to Italy. It also seems both his parents were teachers of the Italian language. Regardless, I imagine that after four years with Parma, Rossi's about as comfortable speaking Italian as he is English. I would also imagine that four years in Italy at the pivotal age of 12-16 cemented the already strong cultural ties to Italy developed as a child. I'll be honest, growing up in the States, I feel American, but my soccer culture was completely Italian, learned straight through my father and solidified over many stays with family in Italy. If I were 18 and in Rossi's shoes, you would have had to drag me kicking and screaming to play for the USMNT as long as there was the slightest glimmer of hope that I could one day play for the Azzurri. Call me treacherous, but the truth is that if I had grown up in my community with American instead of Italian parents, I would likely have considered soccer a game for "sissy's and foreigners." The only reason I had an opportunity to truly love and immerse myself in soccer culture was my exposure to it through my Italian father. I stress that I do feel American in many ways, probably more so than Rossi who may only remember being in the States from age 6-12. But when it comes to football, I love the Azzurri for what they represent to me as a child of Italian immigrants and a lover of football. And incidently, there is more than a glimmer of hope for Rossi, despite what people say about Italian coaches realtionship's with foreign based players. The only foreign based player foolishly left out of the national team was Zola. But Remember, he was 30 when he left for England, and in '98 Italy had Del Piero and Baggio, while in '00 they had Del Piero and Totti. Perhaps an argument can be made for Di Canio, but I think it would be a weak one. I hope the kid becomes a star and plays for whoever his heart tells him to represent on the football field. But I'm growing tired of the ridiculous statements made by many of the USMNT supporters. It seems they have a limited grasp of what makes one truly love and feel attached to a country or culture.