So al-Qaeda are underdogs compared to the U.S. Does that mean that Europeans were cheering after 9/11? If they were really against violence then they should be for the invasion because overall it will reduce violence.
But that isn't entirely true now is it? How did hamas get control of Gaza anyway? They didn't drive out the Israeli's. No, Israel removed there troops and their people, with force I might add, and as soon as they left, hamas seized the new land to use for launching attacks against Israel. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/i...25115200&en=d8aefb293ac0e831&ei=5070&emc=eta1
Not that there's any hostoric precedent for a lengthy war involving the Dutch! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighty_Years'_War How about Mexico?
And the US entered the war when exactly?!!! If anything the experience of having been occupied still is fresh in the memory of continental Europeans and that is precisely what makes them a lot more weary of any class of war, violence and occupation than generally the British and Americans. The number of civlian Dutch victims is two thirds of the entire number of US military victims in the entire war (and the Dutch had a population of 9 million at the time), guess on what people the war made a bigger impression on. I know from my grandparents how traumatising occupation is in the long term. My grandad never entered Germany again after the war even while he lives five miles away from the border with Germany and even while he went on holiday to Austria (via France and Switzerland) many times. If that's how my grandparents feel about German occupation I dread what Israeli rule has done to the general mindset of Palestinians, not just of this generation but of many generations to come. See that is the scary thing that I don't think the pro-Israel camp in the US suburbs even gets near to understanding. As for the jewish, SURELY they can understand after what they went through historically what violence and oppression does to a people.
I'd be all for a compromise and I'm sure Israel would be too. Hamas are terrorists who are not willing to negotiate. If the leaders of Hamas weren't sending rockets into Israel there'd be no need for Israel to invade. Currently the only terms Hamas are willing to negotiate on involve the total destruction of Israel. Hopefully a smarter party takes over once Hamas is destroyed.
And in the past 40 years sending waves of suicide bombers into stores and public transportation and having people drive construction equipment into people and their cars and high jacking aircraft and kidnapping people and...
I as a Dutch person am telling you the long-term impact occupation has on the mindset of a people and you as an American call me misguided and uninformed?
Well my great-grandparents and their parents were Jews living in Eastern Europe just before violence broke out. They chose to leave rather than stay and get killed by their anti-Semitic neighbors. They did not choose to send rockets off or fight back. It is not nearly that bad in Gaza from what I know. If my great-grandparents could leave, surely Palestinians can elect a non-terrorist government or just leave if they really wanted stability. Hopefully they learn.
johan, perhaps this will help you understand the Jewish position in regards to hamas. And it does smack of how the Nazi's treated the jews as well. http://www.adl.org/main_israel/hamas_facts.htm How can Israel work with people such as this to establish any peace? War is all they want, and now they have it. I hope they enjoy it while so many suffer because of them.
No, you're misguided and uninformed to state that Americans don't know about this stuff. The majority of Americans either came from countries in conflict or they've had ancestors who were oppressed on American soil. You can stand up for your country, but don't hate on mine.
All well & good, but plenty of Dutch seem to have gotten over it, based on the trainload of Oranje I accompanied from Amsterdam to Frankfurt in 2006! http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/germany2006/results/matches/match=97410037/report.html My father left Northern Ireland to avoid far less economic & religious oppression than exists in the ME. His brothers & most relatives remained. Upon his return with his family many years later, he was roughed up by a British soldier at a checkpoint, who apparently recognized the local accent more than the US passport. Personally, I am happy he made the move, and it never affected my support for Chelsea!
Just do me a favour and at least TRY to put yourself in someone's elses shoes for a change. This isn't about you or your family or about people avenging their family, for the majority its about regular people wanting a peaceful life and a future for their children on both sides of the fence, yet on the Palestinian side of the fence, a lot more people are likely to get killed in this conflict. If you can't emphathise with those people then I'm done discussing this with you.
The facts show that the Americans and the British are a lot quicker to go to war than the continental Europeans. The former were never occupied, the latter were. Coincidence? I think not.
Yes and like I said, the long-term impact of occupation is something I really don't think the pro-israel camp in the US quite understand. Their actions certainly seem to underscore that. You can't bully a people systematically and at the same time tell them off for hating you. The human mind simply does not work that way.
I feel bad for the civilians, obviously, who doesn't? However, I ask you again what would you do in Israel's position? Notice that without the mindset of the British and Americans your country may very well be part of Germany atm. You could reverse it and say that we realize that war works when it comes to dealing with enemies who will not negotiate.
Ive told you what I would do if I were in Israel's position: realise that violence doesn't work and consider a different approach. What you don't realise is that war is bad for everyone. After five years of being oppressed by the Nazis my nan found two 15-year old German child soldiers crying for their mothers in her backyard. She fed them and comforted them despite of her hate for all things nazi which I guess is beyond your realm of understanding. Things are never black and white in life, let alone war. The formerly occupied continental Europeans understand that, but it seems the Americans and british have a much harder time to do the same.
More specifically what kind of approach. Hamas won't negotiate. That is within my realm of understanding. We Americans sympathize towards the civilians that are being killed but at the same time we realize that there is no other option.