http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7800985.stm http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/27/gaza.israel.strikes/index.html Hundreds killed. Sadly, the tenuous cease-fire expired last week & Hamas fired hundreds of rockets into Israel, although AIAIK there were no casualties. There are obvious civilian casualties from the Israeli raids. It appears the two sides are incapable of negotiating. Hamas' apocalyptic vision matches an Israel that has to pander to its hard-liners.
There was one kileld in the rocket attacks. Israel claims these attacks were as a result of rocket attacks, Hamas says the rocket attacks were a response to the killing of three of its members, together with the fact that the siege was not lifted and attacks did not cease against it's members during the period of calm. I am amazed that the world has not spoken out in fury at the humanitarian situation in Gaza. Irrespective of what your thoughts are on "who started it", you have one and a half million civilians being slowly starved, with a few hundred being quickly slaughtered. There are people eating grass in Gaza. Raw sewage is being pumped into the Mediterranean, people have died due to floods of raw sewage engulfing their homes. THIS MUST STOP.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/27/gaza.israel.strikes/index.html Even after border crossings were opened, hamas continued their attacks. It should be clear by now that the only return hamas will ever get for firing rockets into Israel is violence. If hamas wants sympathy from the world, then they should disarm, renounce violence and show the world that they mean it. Then what cause would Israel have to continue with their blockade and counter attacks? Simply put, violence begets violence and that is all hamas is accomplishing.
There has been a lot of criticism of Israel for the blockades. At the same time, Hamas simply has to stop firing rockets into Israel (even if no one is being killed) & sending suicide bombers into israel (althhough that has stopped due to the border closings). I can't understand the actions of Hamas. But, they were elected by the majority of Gazans and apparently are content to let their own people suffer, even though international outcry hasn't stopped Israel. I also can't understand the actions of Israel. As someone says, it's like killing flies with hand grenades. I was watching some of the video coverage, which is long on injured children being treated, short on injured gunmen, although undoubtedly there are plenty, as Israeli strikes are usually targeted. Who really benefits from the actions of either side? Hamas is well aware that Israel will retaliate. In fact, overretaliation is what they want! Israel plays into the hands of the Moslem media by these tactics. Hamas' goal is the destruction of Israel. That won't be accomplished by truces or agreements.
Well we know that the only acceptable move Israel can make for the muslim media would be to announce that they are dispersing there nation and all the Jews are going to leave for parts unknown. hamas is never going to be satisfied with anything less then the total destruction of Israel, thus so long as they exist, they will never allow for any peace in the region. Fatah has learned and has shown that peace with Israel can be achieved, but unfortunately for those who want a Palestine to exist, hamas will continue to submarine those efforts and destroy any chance for it to happen. The solution to the problem is to remove hamas. They are the barrier to a nation for Palestine, and peace for Palestine and Israel.
They are already on their way: Imam Hashim Raza leads mourners in prayer during a funeral for Mohsin Naqvi at al-Fatima Islamic Center in Colonie, N.Y., Monday, Sept. 22, 2008. Naqvi was a Muslim, a native of Pakistan (he emigrated to the U.S. with his family when he was 8 years old and became a citizen at 16) and a U.S. Army officer. He was killed by a roadside bomb while on patrol in Afghanistan. (AP Photo/Mike Groll)
Lem me get this straight - Hamas keeps shooting rockets into Israel - hundreds of them. Just becasue they don't kill many - the intent is still the same. Israel opens Gaza border, lets Palestinian prisoners out, accepts Palestinian people into their hospital from the wounds of Kassam rockets by Hamas and Israel is still wrong? We never see eye to eye but if you are telling me that Israel cannot respond in such way after so many attacks on her citizens then you're more biased than I thought before. FINALLY Israel does something right - screw the media or what other Arabs think - they hate Israel anyways. Maybe this will send a message to Palestinians that Hamas was not the right choice and it's up to them to choose a new spokesman for them. How many rockets is too many? Just becasue Israel has bomb shelters and Kassams are inacurate how does that AT ALL matter since the goal of Hamas is simply and blindly to kill as many civillians as possible?
Make them realize their own mistake and let them fix it. If international bodies won't or if Palestinians themselves can't do so, then it's only left up to Israel to do so or how else will they prevent daily rockets into Israel? Rocket attacks are daily, indiscriminatory. I mean for ***k sake, which responsible civiliazed nation would allow her citizens to be under constant attacks like that or living in bombshelters without doing something about it?
Israel violated the cease-fire negotiations first as they shutdown border crossings that left 28 palestinian civilians dead, and Barak's reply was 'no comment'. That led to Hamas' retaliation, so Israel commits an atrocity such as this, and then people wonder who are the barbaric terrorists.
Agreed; Israel is finally making Hamas terrorists pay! Good. It's about time that the Hamas reign of rocket terror against Israel was ended. The Palestinians, too, need to give the Hamas terrorists the boot and be done with them...
Yes they were. They were sold a bill of goods by hamas with promises of glory and defeat of Israel. What has hamas brought to the people of Gaza? War not with just Israel, but with Fatah. Their OWN people. They divided their own cause and for what reason? For what gain did it get them? I am not saying Israel is not without blame, but frankly they have every right to fight back when they are attacked. And as always the difference in the attacks is that hamas fires into Israel in the hopes of killing ANYONE they can. While Israel targets hamas leaders and fighters who hide among there kids and women hoping to use there deaths as fodder for anti-Israel reporting by the World's Media. That act alone is far more despicable then anything Israel has done. hamas has brought only pain and suffering for the people of Gaza. Hopefully the people there will see this and work with Fatah to end the fighting and move on towards peace. But that won't happen so long as Gaza is locked down and the people are suffering, they will continue to look to hamas because hamas offers 'freedom' fighting against evil Israel. Even though that fighting is what is causing there hardship in the first place. A cycle of violence that isn't likely to be broken anytime soon.
This is the fault of Fatah and the US, with Israeli connivance. Read the De Soto Report: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jun/13/usa.israel http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2007/06/12/DeSotoReport.pdf And the Vanity Fair report "The Gaza Bombshell": http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804 Hamas was the elected government of the Palestinians. The US, Israel and Fatah sought to undermine them from the get-go. Israel has killed about 140 police people and security people in Gaza, targeting police stations as well as Hamas official buildings, which should be classed as government buildings. They attacked with F-16's when children were leaving schools. Where do you think police stations and government buildings should be located? As far away from the civilian population that they serve as possible? And when you destroy the security infrastructure, how can you expect that same infrastructure to prevent attacks? Fact is, Israel was offered a continuation of the truce if it stopped killing Hamas members and lifted the blockade on Gaza (which is in contravention of humanitarian law). Israel sees these as unacceptable conditions for peace. Why?
Your article is from June of 07, hardly current. From your article: Had hamas simply agreed to such terrible compromises like committing to non-violence, recognizing Israel, and accept PREVIOUS AGREEMENTS, then perhaps Gaza now would not be in the state that they are in. An interesting tidbit from your article. hamas went right to what they know when they were elected, they attacked fatah in order to seize power in Gaza. I know of nowhere in the US where police stations are next to schools. Also are you trying to define hamas police as being seperate from their military wing? http://www.reuters.com/article/middleeastCrisis/idUSLR133167 Same man who is in charge of the hamas military wing is also the hamas police spokesman? Pretty much implicates that there is no difference between the two.
So much for your thoughts about hamas infrastructure being destroyed that would be used to prevent attacks. They are both one and the same. So if they really want to prevent attacks against Israel, they need only stop themselves. The bottom line here is simple. hamas does not want any peace with Israel. If you or anyone can show me otherwise I would love to read it.
I thought you'd never ask: Hamas offers Israel a 10-year truce. Not acceptable to US or Israel, not taken further. This is a wider ranging truce than the "period of calm" agreed in April, which lasted until recently. Hamas offered the original six-month truce, on conditions that Israel would also agree the period of calm and lift the blockade. Israel accepted that truce, but the attacks (on either side) and the blockade (solely by Israel) weren't lifted. Hamas offered a continuation of the six month truce a few days ago, on the basis that Israel stopped its attacks and lifted the blockade (i.e the original terms of the truce). Israel isn't interested, as the truce has been offered but not accepted. It seems that Hamas has been the ones offering peace in return for peace from Israeli attacks and the right of its people to trade and thereby earn their living. But a truce has not been agreed by Israel. Care to explain why? Are the terms (mutuality of the truce and lifting of the blockade which contravenes humanitarian law) too severe and draconian for Israel to accept?
You mean when the same infrastructure of security is the same as infrastructure Hamas? It's called a revolving door - "police" pretend they are aresting the terrorists and then let them go the same day - JOKE. Or it's even better when the same cops who are supposed to work with IDF to help prevent attacks actually participate or aide in those attacks. And according to you, it is Israel who broke the truce and it was Hamas who wanted ceasefire to continue? Interesting perspective - when was the last time Hamas wanted peace and I don't mean peace by killing Israelis or having "quiet" time to re-arm and re-group?
I guess Israel is not OK with bunch of murdering thugs running around in the name of peace. Not like that.
I didn't want to bring facts into the discussion, but Scarecrow asked for them and i gave them to him. Hamas has offered mutual ceasefires as well as long-term truces. Israel accepted one ceasefire proposed by Hamas, but didn't lift the blockade (which was a term of the initial truce agreed by Israel and Hamas), and rejected the second offer of a truce offered on or around 23 December 2008, which was on the exact same terms which Israel agreed six months ago. Israel also didn't accept the long-term 10 year truce proposed by Hamas. Your opinions on the reasons why Hamas might offer peace ("to re-arm" or "to prepare for further conflict" after the expiry of the original ten-year long term truce) is mere conjecture. Again, Hamas has offered a cessation of hostilities, both in the short and long term. Israel has rejected these. These are the facts.
If we are going to argue semantecs - fine. But, let's be honest, why in the right mind would Israel ever agree to full withdrawl to '67 borders and not go after Hamas leaders who, "in time of peace," are preparing more attacks. You should know that Hamas offers things to Isreal knowing full well that those terms are not going to be accepted. Thus those proposals are faulty to begin with and are pointless.
Remind me - is Hamas still oficially dedicated to the destruction of Israel? Remind me also, what has Egypt done for its Arab brethren? With whom they share a border?
I am not arguing semantecs, nor am i delving into the realms of semantics. Peace has been offered by Hamas, and rejected by Israel. It has been rejected because Israel doesn't want to withdraw to 1967 borders, and Israel doesn't want to accept the rights of the Palestinian people to choose their leadership. If that is the Israeli position, fine. Israel should make it clear that it wishes to annex Palestinian land in exchange for peace. But don't go around acting as if Hamas are the one's rejecting peace, when in fact they are the ones proposing it.
I hold Egypt as culpable as Israel for the blockade. Only difference between Egypt and Israel is that Israel does direct as well as indirect killings. Egypt is a disgrace for continuing the blockade. On your other point, is Israel still officially dedicated to the destruction of Hamas? I will check the original Hamas Charter before giving a definitive answer to your question. It may take me a while to translate it. Irrespective of the Charter, it has nevertheless offered peace which Israel has rejected.