Is there an era in which either Europe or S-A was truly dominant ?

LOL funny once again we are back to opinions and trying to pass them as facts. Both Klitchkos are 6'7" tall and 245 pounds. You saw what Lennox Lewis did to tyson and you think the klitchkos cant do the same. Frasier was too small and so was Ali. Maybe just maybe the current era looks weak because of the domination of the Klitchkos brothers. Same way Tyson did during his era, name me all the all time greats that mike tyson beat or all the all time greats Larry Holmes beat.

You are overrating their eras and underrating the Klitschko brothers era because of their current domination.



[]__[]

 

We will never know and to say with ease is stupid because Ali hardly beat anybody with ease during his career. And but to say the klitchkos are weak champions and dont have a chance vs any of the all time great is crazy. I give the klitschko brothers a 50-50 chance vs any all time fighter and maybe better odds vs some.


[]__[]

 

Apparently, I usually read that he's described as the genuine predecessor of Pelé in that title.

 

The Uruguayan defense of course deserves a lot of credit for containing Brazil to one goal, but looking at the statistics it is not clear that Zizinho had a better individual match than Schiaffino. Being that there is parity, the winner should get the spoils. It is a similar case with Rossi vs Zico at WC82.

Also, like Puck, I take this retrospective awards with a grain of salt, as they tend to favor the big nations in keeping with a preferred narrative by FIFA.

 

Four English players despite their team leaving in the first round.

Lewis fought Tyson when Tyson was a shadow of the great boxer he had been, this is not a valid point.

That's what most critics were saying when Ali was going to face off against Foreman, and we know what happended. I think Ali had far more range and movement for either Klitschko to contend.

 

Well to be fair Schiaffino was much closer to Zizinho (very tiny ) than a Rossi could ever reach Zico's level in talent!

Rossi was ell deserved a Golden ball for Italy 82 since the team were so negative in building chances for him and he was *somehow one time wonderly made it 6goals/7shots on goals

Zico was on course to be teh best player of that tournament only if his team could reach at least 3rd or 4th final team! (like Eusebio 66, or Forlan 2010)

 

Overall yes, but I was mentioning in regards to winning the best player award for a WC.

 

Tyson got beat by a journeymen in buster douglas, he gets overrated because he was a fan favorite. He also got beat by Holyfield are you going to say every loss on his resume was due to being over the hill. Look at the fighters he dominated during his peak, the list is far from impressive.


Foreman is four inches shorter than both klitschkos and couldnt box to save his life, he was a puncher with limited boxing skills. Both Klitchkos would keep Ali at bay with their jab and long reach.

Once again I'm not saying they are better than ali or that they would dominate them. But to say they are weak champions and that the era is weak because they are dominating is stupid. Just look at Tyson and Holmes resume and tell me they beat all time greats.


[]__[]

 

But was it said before Pelé surfaced?

 

The loss to Douglas was a fluke, anyways Tyson did beat a great fighter in Holmes, and some very good ones in Spinks, Bruno and Biggs before his jail time. If you're making the argument that Tyson's competition was weak, what does that say about the Klitschkos, who have never fought a decent fighter in their careers other than an over the hill Lennox Lewis.

 

So lennox lewis was over the hill but you give credit to tyson for beating holmes? LOL bias much.

And a fluke is a lucky punch but douglas beat tyson to a pulp over 12 rounds.


[]__[]

 

Everybody here talks about talent. Talented players are a dime a dozen.
Real "talent" is bringing your best WHEN IT COUNTS.
So WINNING counts.

 

Just thought I'd pop in at this point with your standard reminder that Lucian Balan was a superior midfielder to Bernd Schuster, an indesputable fact backed up by one European Cup to zero in their head to head match of 1986. An objective view of the matter that cannot be brought into contention by any opinion or conjecture.

 

Holmes fought defending champ Holyfield to a standstill, losing only on points a few years after having been thoroughly beaten by Tyson. Also, both Klithscko brothers have lost fights to less than stellar fighters, it's not just Tyson who has lost to a mediocre fighter during his prime.

 

Doesnt change the fact that Holmes was almost 40 yrs old and over the hill when he fought Tyson. Vitali only loss was to Lewis and to Byrd when he quick because of injury after dominating the fight. Every boxer losses to lesser fighters in their career the only fighter to retire undefeated was Rocky Marciano. The point is the Klitschko brothers would be competitive on any era and probably dominate some.


[]__[]

 

how are you gonna prove it otherwise? results count, the rest is idle talk, your opinion, or my opinion, anybody's opinion
think what would happen to Messi's "legacy" if he doesnt win the WC
look at Zico, lots of people say he was "the best one" blah blah blah, he didnt win the big one when he had the chance
the truly great have done it
and I dont care whether Balan is better than Schuster or not, nobody does
we are talking about the great ones here

 

I didn't mean Zizinho had a better performance than Schiaffino in the decisive game mate, that could be arguable (but apparently the best player was Varela), but Zizinho is regarded as the best player of the whole tournament in many sources (including the official retrospective of FIFA).

Although this may not be reliable, I personally think could be a suitable award by the way how some narrators were astonished with the Brazilian and how Brazil was rated as the best team by far until that last game.

 

How could it have been said (as his predecessor) before Pelé emerged?

 

So you say Cruijff was not great ... since he coudl not win it? Puskas was not great ? Platini was not great ? Eusebio was not great ... and ... many ... like Messi now as well ...

 

Not necessarily agree with your assessment of Tyson, but I have to rep you on the completely unexpected shoutout to the great and too soon late, Salvador Sanchez! I was just a kid when he passed away tragically, but the stories I heard growing up certainly put him as one of the greatest. I also loved Leonard growing up, no doubt the most skillful boxer of all times. Mayweather doesn't belong anywhere near the top, there is a reason why he ran away from fighting Pacquiao - he would not go the distance against a boxer that can counteract his underhanded tricks.

 

Don't put words in my mouth
They're not as great as Maradona, Pele, Schiafino and some others
there are levels of greatness
the truly great elevate their teams to greatness
that's TALENT, and I'm not talking about athletic ability

 

Understood your point .. and ...
Did you truly watch Schiaffino? and ever watched many games of Zico?
I can say ... at his best Zico looked just better than Schiaffino and very very close to pele

 

But you said real talent is winning, I applied your argument elsewhere and you say who cares? So is Luca Toni more talented than Thierry Henry or not?

Or is it possibly a team sport where the result isn't always indicative of one particular player?

Results are no proof either. It's a debate. If the results were the only thing worth talking about, this entire forum would be a giant mundane list of results.