Is the MLS expanding next year?

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by ryankozlowski, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. ryankozlowski

    ryankozlowski Red Card

    Apr 30, 2005
    Conneaut Lake, PA
    Haven't heard any definitive's yet this year. Heard San Antonio fell thru. They got to put two more teams into the mix. I mean this year the league has been very successful. The last couple of weeks attendance has been pretty high everywhere.

    any definitives.. or any ones that u guys think will happen.
     
  2. wufc

    wufc Member

    May 1, 2005
    UC Irvine
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Garber has said at the EARLIEST 2007 but he can easily go back on his word. If Club America can't work out a purchase of the Earthquakes and say that they MUST play next year or the deal is over, then MLS may do expansion next year. If that happens, expect MLS to try and get Rochester in also, which is what they tried when Vergera wanted to enter Chivas in 2004 on short notice.

    Tomorrow, there is gonna be an announcement about the formation of a Milwaukee Soccer Group looking for expansion AND a downtown SSS.
     
  3. ryankozlowski

    ryankozlowski Red Card

    Apr 30, 2005
    Conneaut Lake, PA
    earthquakes doing that bad? they filled the place for donovan?
     
  4. wufc

    wufc Member

    May 1, 2005
    UC Irvine
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, AEG just wants to kill this team.

    http://thefirealarm.matchnight.com/tfadefault.cfm?page=ARTICLE&show=882

    And a correction. It looks like MLS is going to AWARD THE EXPANSION to Milwaukee tomorrow. That could possibly mean a 2006 2-team expansion. My hope is that MLS is giving Milwaukee 20 months to prepare, not 10.
     
  5. DarthSarachan

    DarthSarachan New Member

    Jun 3, 2005
    Palatine, IL
    I really hope not. I think should expand maybe every four years. Does anyone remember the lessons we should have learned from the NASL or from the Mutiny and Fusion? With average attendance down about 8% this year, and the questionable futures of two clubs, MLS would be better served by addressing the issues of the Quakes and Wizards before expanding.
     
  6. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    No expansion in 2006.

    There were 240 players in MLS in November, 2004
    There are 336 players in MLS now
    The next expansion will push that number to at least 392.

    Going from 240 players in November, 2004 to 392 players by March, 2006 is putting way too much pressure on the talent pool.
     
  7. tkgunn

    tkgunn Member

    Nov 18, 1998
    NJ
    What does expanding every 4 years teach us about Tampa Bay, they were a founding team? Tampa Bay and Miami taught us that we need to pick our markets more closely,example SLC, possible Houston, etc. MLS does not need to be in the largest cities possible but the best soccer cities possible.
     
  8. Old Man!

    Old Man! BigSoccer Supporter

    RIP Chicago Fire
    Mar 11, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wrong. Tampa Bay and more accurately Miami taught us that we need to pick our INVESTORS more closely. There isn't a bad soccer market in this country, it's all how you present it.
     
  9. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I disagree completely. The key is competent management combined with proper facilities.
     
  10. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Yep. You said it better than I did.

    Tampa and to an extent the continuing saga of the Clash/Quakes has taught us that league-owned teams are a horrible idea. But of course, without them, there wouldn't have been a league in 1996.
     
  11. Blong

    Blong Member+

    Oct 29, 2002
    Midwest, the real one.
    i don't disagree, but those figures can be slightly misleading considering the four back-end roster spots added to each team. 48 of those 96 extra players are there because MLS tacked on developmental spots to round out reserve games. Not to mention, bringing in overseas players like Ramon Ramirez and
    Sequeira mitigates the stress upon the player pool, which, believe it or not, is not a closed a source of talent .

    I do worry about the effect upon level of play, but i think if the right situation comes along (great investors and city/stadium) MLS may have to strike while the iron's hot, and endure the gowing pains.

    We definitely can't expand next year, but 2007 would be bearable.
     
  12. bnjamin

    bnjamin New Member

    Feb 11, 2005
    Los Angeles
    I think this is 100% correct. It seems that many people forget about this fact and focus on things like stadiums and the like. I think it is already fairly obvious that the talent pool for MLS is at its current limit. I would like to see new teams as well, but there is not enough quality home grown players to currently support new teams.
     
  13. tkgunn

    tkgunn Member

    Nov 18, 1998
    NJ

    I don't think this accurately reflects the situation in Miami at all. I know you mentioned the management/Investors but Miami had an exciting team playing in a great little stadium and couldn't get the fans to come. Miami is known for being a bad sports city, just ask the dolphins and heat(prior to Shaq,Wade).
     
  14. okcomputer

    okcomputer Member

    Jun 25, 2003
    dc
    I think we will see MLS increase the foreign player roster spots soon out of necessity. They want to keep exanding for reasons like TV so I dont think the player pool is a reason for them to hold off expansion. While the American player pool is maxed out, soccer has the advantage of being able to get talent from all over the world.
     
  15. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Unless the foreigner limit goes to something like 10, the issue doesn't change.
     
  16. chayes

    chayes New Member

    Feb 29, 2000
    Raleigh, NC
    Wha???

    How many of the U-20 Nats are unsigned? U-17s?

    The American player pool isn't even close to having the surface scratched. There are plenty of players out there, it just takes a little investment in development.
     
  17. okcomputer

    okcomputer Member

    Jun 25, 2003
    dc
    I wonder if fans really care anymore about how many foreigners are in the league. If you look at baseball, basketball, and hockey they are loaded with foreign players now. I think this was an issue with the NASL because they had virtually no American presence. MLS has many talented American players now and it will only get better from here. I think most people just want to see the best possible product on the field now regardless of who it is.
     
  18. 2006 is a World Cup year. That will take a lot of players away for one-three months. Pluse the WC draws all the attention of soccer fans in the middle of the MLS season. However, the after glow continues and 2007 is an excellent time to expand. With more new owners and their money coming in, there may be more dinero to pay better quality players. I think international slots will be expanded. Two new teams in 2007, and, if the ownership is ready, 2 more in 2008 doesn't seem undoable. Getting to 16-18 markets will make renegotiation of MLS, SUM, AEG TV deals easier since the current deals run out after 2006.
     
  19. Calexico77

    Calexico77 Member

    Sep 19, 2003
    Mid-City LA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, but that investment is going to take three or four years MINIMUM to pay off. The CURRENT American talent pool is starting to wear down, especially with the expanded rosters, reserve teams, etc. It's not like MLS benches are filled to the brim with talented youngsters that could go elsewhere. We need at least a year to let the smoke clear and see where we stand. Right now there are a lot more Memo Gonzales' than Hercules Gomez's in the reserve league. Plus, that will allow for the new USL to organize their rosters after losing some teams, let the college pool really deepen, and perhaps deepen the SI talent pool with a raise in salary caps.

    Our coaching pool is also in sad shape. Maybe with the first generation of MLS players now taking up the coaching mantle, things will change. But right now, there is too great a possibility that Rongen or Andrulis would go right back to coaching Milwaukee or whatnot.
     
  20. yure323

    yure323 New Member

    Jun 11, 2005
    Necropolis
    What if MLS would expand by one team ( Houston ) next year, why does the number of teams have to end with 2,4,6,8 or 0 ?
     
  21. guamster

    guamster Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    Winnetka, CA
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Guam
    Scheduling becomes a nightmare with an odd number of teams. One team will always be sitting idle every weekend. You would either have to play fewer games (Lamar Hunt is against that), play more mid-week games (bad for attendance) or lengthen an already long season (April-November).
     
  22. ryankozlowski

    ryankozlowski Red Card

    Apr 30, 2005
    Conneaut Lake, PA
    just wondering how attendance is down by 8% from last year.. Where is the statistic for that? Because i thought attendance was up.
     
  23. Calexico77

    Calexico77 Member

    Sep 19, 2003
    Mid-City LA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Average attendance may be down, but there is no way that with RSL and Chivas that the raw numbers are down.
     
  24. wufc

    wufc Member

    May 1, 2005
    UC Irvine
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chicago, Colorado, and Dallas have cut back on marketing to focus on their stadiums (I don't know why Colorado's doing that). Kansas City and San Jose have lame duck owners. And Columbus finally fell through the bottom. So there are explanations for 6 of the teams for having crappy attendances. You could throw in Chivas in there too. And the biggest factor: the Adu effect is gone. Last year, Adu's road games averaged about 23,000. This year, it's down to around 14,000.
     
  25. DarthSarachan

    DarthSarachan New Member

    Jun 3, 2005
    Palatine, IL
    Code:
    				2005				2004			
    			GP	Attendance	Avg	GP	Attendance	Avg	Difference	% of change
    Chicago Fire		10	145,413		14,541	15	257,295		17,153	(2,612)		-15.23%
    Chivas USA 		10	118,492		11,849
    Colorado Rapids 	8	113,224		14,153 	15	212,925		14,195	(42)		-0.30%
    Columbus Crew		10	114,726		11,473	15	253,079		16,872	(5,399)		-32.00%
    D.C. United		8	133,180		16,648	15	258,484		17,232	(585)		-3.39%
    FC Dallas		6	54,185		9,031	15	136,319		9,088	(57)		-0.63%
    Kansas City Wizards	8	76,918		9,615	15	222,235		14,816	(5,201)		-35.10%
    Los Angeles Galaxy	9	205,273		22,808	15	357,137		23,809	(1,001)		-4.20%
    MetroStars		9	145,102		16,122	15	257,923		17,195	(1,072)		-6.24%
    New England Revolution	7	82,058		11,723	15	183,385		12,226	(503)		-4.12%
    Real Salt Lake		8	166,426		20,803		
    San Jose Earthquakes	7	86,691		12,384	15	195,015		13,001	(617)		-4.74%
    			101	1,441,688	14,274	150	2,333,797	15,559	(1,285)		-8.26%
    
    Unfortuneately, I don't have the raw numbers from last year after 101 matches, so I can only compare them to last years total. The teams that have the largest change from last year are Columbus, KC, and Chicago in that order. Dallas and Colorado are the 2 least affected teams. As you can see attendance is down league wide even with RSL and Chivas bumping hte numbers up a bit
     

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