Is the Metro team just running out of energy?

Discussion in 'New York Red Bulls' started by purojogo, Sep 27, 2003.

  1. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There was an article that mentioned how the Metros looked like they were running on their last legs...With players such as Clark and MAgee not used to this level and intensity of play over such an extended period of time, it could be the case that they are just tired. Magee scored often early in the season and had been placed on bench duty a while ago so that he wouldn't burn out....Still, it looks as if he has to make the physical adjustments required to be more consistent
    Neither Clark nor Magee look nearly as good as they did the 1st half of the season. perhaps we were expecting the same level of quality from them all season long and they are not quite adapted to the MLS yet....Maybe we are relying too much on these young players to carry us throught the season, but it seems things are not working as of late....I don't know, but it seems other teams do not have to rely as much on young players as we do (possible exception Chicago) ... Also other team's "stars" are more consistent so the load can be more easily taken by the whole team...
    We have not looked all that energetic the last 3 games, Woly's goal notwithstanding.....
    Ideas? Opinions?
  2. In Bob We Trust

    In Bob We Trust New Member

    Jan 5, 2003
    sounds like a valid argument to me...i'm not sure magee was ever that consistent this season, but i've not heard one person argue that clark has fallen off pretty badly the form he started the season on...

    ...on the other hand, thats only 2 players, and i think what it leads back to is the lack of proper personnel this season, and to make it worse, a more concerning lack of quality depth (if any at all)...curious to hear opinions before tomorrow, hopefully after the game, this will become a moot point
  3. metrocorazon

    metrocorazon Member

    May 14, 2000
    They are just mediocre to begin with. You cant expect kids like Magee, Clark, and Gaven to be consistent during their rookie season. They are learning and getting used to the whole "pro" thing. They could just as easily slip into the groove again next week or continue to be mediocre thats what happens with rookies, specially teen rookies.

    Thats what so good about a reserve sytem, we couldve sent these kids to play week in and week out with no pressure when they hit "slumps" and bring in better players. RIght now they really are getting no help and have to rot in the bench. The best way to get better is by playing and they arent getting that.

    Having said that the rest of our team is mediocre at best and they had a mini hot streak at the begining that got us in the position that we are. Now that everyone has figured us out and the team has cooled off the good players are left to do things by themselves. The offense is basically left to Guevara and no one else, and on defence Eddie Pope seems to be the only consistant force. On top of that these guys are human and as good as they are they are going to make mistakes, yet theres no one there to support them. Thats our problem.
  4. NotAbbott

    NotAbbott Member

    Oct 11, 1999
    My Own Little World
    As an outside observer, I don't know if it's a fatigue issue, really. Much like Bob's teams in Chicago may have relied too heavily on Peter Nowak, his Metro squad may rely too heavily on Mathis. At the end of the day, teams have at least a 50/50 shot of knocking Clint off his game (and I think Kovalenko worked him over pretty effectively on Thursday), and that has repercussions through the team.

    That said, Guevara can sometimes overcome a poor Mathis showing, and there may be some concern in the backline when you look at how badly they were losing the aerial game against DC, but that's the way it looks from about 850 miles West. Aside from still being weak on the flanks, anyway.

  5. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    You're right. We should also bring back OZ to coach the team, and start Valencia with Comas up top also right?

    Please. The Metros were in a very tight position at the start of the season. For an MLS team to be successful, you have to have produciton from your draft. That means new blood coming in for FREE. Gaven has been fresh, and I would def. expect him to start the next game. Magee and Clark just have to dig deep right now. Ideally we would have a reserve system, but because of the economic issues we don't. Now we have to deal with the reality of that. The team has deficiencies, no doubt about it. However, to call them "mediocre" is a joke. What we were last year was mediocre. This team at least seems to care that even after all the horrors of the past 8 years, there are still people who come to their games.

    I def. agree the Metros seem to have hit some sort of wall. That isn't just Magee and Clark though. Even veterans like Digi, Williams, and Ziade are just playing much worse then they were at the start of the year. It isn't just that other teams "figured us out". It is that those players are playing horribly right now, and that is contributing to the ugly displays. They have to get it together though. The Metrostars should have a players only meeting, and use that as a stepping stone. They need to refocus on the goals of the season, to win, and to bring some pride back into the organization. Basically the players have to take charge, and take games over simply because they want. That means the leaders, Pope, Mathis, and Gueverra have to start playing like the international calibre players they are.

    Look, the pieces are there for this to be an MLS juggernaut. Mathis up top is the best pure finisher in the league. Gueverra is easily the best #10, and the Pope-Jolley combo is the best central duo combination. Even Walker, has come out as probably the best keeper in MLS. I find it amazing, that with all that talent we have not come out ahead. We'll see. I have faith in Bradley, because of what he did in Chicago. He overcame a lot of adversity there, and he is facing just as much here. This situation will certainly prove how capable of a coach he is. If he can steer us into the playoffs, that will be a great accomplishment.
  6. dub77

    dub77 New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    in denial
    Why didn't you spell defiantly in your post?
    Just a dumb question.
  7. metrocorazon

    metrocorazon Member

    May 14, 2000
    Why are you even bringing this up?

    First I now what the current situation is but I was talking about the big picture and pointing to how it relates directly to our current situation. It really is a discussion for a different thread but I thought I just make the point anyways.

    Second, I never question the team's commitment(most of them anyways). What I am questioning is their talent, and yes they are mediocre compared to what players on other teams are doing.

    And last if you think a young kid(not a normal 21 year old draftee) coming out of high school is supposed to come into this league(or any for that matter) and play consistently week in and week out YOURE NUTS. THere might be cases were it happens but those are very rare.

    I think all 3 are great talents but Im not expecting much from them being that they are

    a) younger than most drafted
    b) inexperienced at club level
    c) physically overpowered by the older dudes

    What I expect from these young cats is to go out there and play hard, and theyve done that. Now being the rookies that they are they are gunna make mistakes, go thru bad patches, and suffere from low morale from time to time.

    Thats why I brought up the reserves issue where these things can be taken care off in a non-pressure situation and these cats can gain confidence again.

    Thats what I said. ALl these other guys are mediocre players and cant add anything to our team.

    Thats what they figure out. That these guys are playing like sh!t and wont do anything so everyone covers Guevara and Mathis.

    And just how do you expect GUevara and Mathis to play like International Stars is they are constantly double and triple teamed because of the rest of the crap doesnt so anything?

    Are you sh!tting me? Are you still in 2000?Theres atleast 6 dudes ahead of him right now as "Best pure finisher" whom Ill trade Mathis for if the other team was stupid enough to accept it.

    Why do you find it amazing? All we have is a good core, but the rest of the team is crap. We have 2 good defenders who cant be everywhere at the same time, a good midfielder who cant do his midfielding thang cause he has 4 dudes hanging on him, and 3 rookies who will be good.

    Thats 3 good players and 3 up and comers. The rest is crap. Yeah they try hard but that only takes you so far. If trying hard was all it took then Ill be on the team as well.
  8. In Bob We Trust

    In Bob We Trust New Member

    Jan 5, 2003
    i gotta side heavily with MetroCorazon...for me personally, watching this season unfold it's obvious we could be on track with some of these pieces to be a juggernaut, seen in flashes...but it's just as obvious why we're so far from that...

    taking a step back, it might be easier to see that in a 10 team league, with SES the way it is right now, it's almost impossible for one team to be far and away the best team, but the names singled out in these prior posts are the right ones...the personnel around them is far from satisfactory, and i have strong faith in this offseason that we'll take a huge step in the right direction to surround our core properly...yet we also are in a position with if we get in the right groove, we could make a serious run at the Cup, and that has to begin tomorrow...
  9. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    I don't know. I'm at a loss right now. I have some strong convictions in terms of what I would like to see. I definately do not believe that our wonderful stretch at the start of the season was a fluke. Those players who have been mentioned as not performing up to par have to pick it up. That is why I do not think this team is "mediocre". It is because certain players are not living up to expectations. In the end that has to include the whole team, including Mathis and Gueverra. I am a huge Clint fan, and I still consider him the best finisher by a long shot. No other player in MLS, except for Stoichkov in his prime, could have scored the goal he scored against Korea. What we need Mathis though, is to take over games. Now, I am not saying for him to force things when they aren't there, but he shouldn't be as complacent as he's been. He's been too unselfish at times, trailing back, getting the ball and trying to spray that ball. I would rather have him draw the foul there. Mix it up with the other players by being physical. Same with Gueverra. He is an amazing talent, but the team is dragging right now, and he has to lead the midfield.

    The core of the team is there. It's just that the Richies, etc are not playing up to the level they were earlier. If they do play up to that level, we are easily up there with SJ and Chicago.

    As for being double or triple teamed. If that's what you have to deal with, then you go with it. The best players are able to overcome blocks like that. Maybe I am naive, but I really have faith in this team. I think if the right mix is on the field, the 3-5-2 can act as a stopgap, before we retool the team for next year. Are these guys optimal? No, but considering the circumstances of the offseason, I think they were the best of a difficult situation. I think Moreno was worth the gamble. The potential was just too much to pass up there in my view. I guess he'll be cut. With Jaime and Howard out, that is a lot of money there. Also, the fact that we get that big allocation for Howard, that should be very big.

    As for expectations of youngsters. I think it is all relative. Because of the financial constraints in MLS, you really need your young players to come up big. Both as role players, and to add depth to your team. That's the reality in MLS. Do I think there should be competent reserve teams? Yes, of course. I think Gaven can handle Convey on the left. Convey is a pretty good player, but I don't think he's a winger. He can be played out of the game. Same with Olsen, if you have someone with the same intensity marking him. Even though he has improved mentally as a soccer player with all the time he's been away, his best aspect is the hustling he does off the ball. I believe someone like Edgar can cover for that.

    I also think that if you give a limited role to Clark, like William's position, he will be able to handle that much better. This is especially true with DC, where they don't have a mercurial 10 anymore, as Etch is done. They do a service by committee, trying to get all 4 midfielders involved in the offense. With the right scheme, we can get by DC this Sunday, and the USOC semis. It's up to the team, from Bob down to the last player to see it through.
  10. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Anyone who believes the Metros have run out of energy, had high expectations of the team before the season started.

    The consensus of Metro fans then who follow the team regularly was that this was a rebuilding season and the team would be under the .500 mark. Did anyone REALLY expect the Metros to be 10-8-7 at this point in the season? I didn't.

    The Metros padded their record in the beginning with wins over pathetic Dallas and Colorado, before they got their act together. They've been playing .500 ball ever since.

    Remember, the ENTIRE midfield is brand new (Lisi was a sub last year) and has no one who can score, and Mathis will never be the same player as in 2000.
  11. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    We're fine. There are ups and downs and we're in the middle of a down. I don't quite remember, but I'd bet good money that we had this sort of conversation when we were winless for awhile in the summer.
  12. Soccer C

    Soccer C New Member

    May 6, 2001
    This is a bad time for a down.

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