There was recently a heated argument on an MLS board which revolved around interpretation of dangerous play. Two opposing players approached a rolling ball near the touch line at top speed; their paths were at a 45 degree angle as they converged. The defender slid in an attempt to clear the 50-50 ball out of touch. He accomplished exactly that. In the course of sliding, his lead foot touched the ball first. His opponent touched the ball second. His slide then led his trailing leg to take out the supporting leg of the opponent (all in a fraction of a second), who fell hard. The defender was ruled to have fouled the attacking player, and a yellow card was issued. The T.V. commentator objected. Opinions of B.S. posters have varied. What says the panel?
I have trouble seeing the trailing leg take out the player that got there second from a 45 degree angle. However, if the defender slid with both feet up and took out the attacker, it sounds like a reckless play, worthy of a foul and a yellow card. Getting to the ball first doesn't mean you didn't play recklessly.
This points out one of the great misconceptions among players and fan alike. Just because you got to the ball first does not mean you made a fair and clean tackle. If you have to go through the player or if your trailing leg that quickly takes the opponent down it's clearly a foul. The rest is a judgement by the referee if the action is worthy of a caution or send-off based on criteria established by FIFA and the USSF. If the tackle is from behind which is what this sounds like, a caution could be warranted. It comes down to "in the opinion of the referee".
It's very hard to have an opinion without seeing the play. And it's impossible to know what the referee saw. Provided the referee was in a position to see the play, I'll go with his call. Players, fans and coaches have this misconception. Ball? What ball? There's a ball? It's not a question of whether a player gets the ball. It's a question of how much of the other player he gets.
Re: Re: Is it a foul? a yellow card? Except for Shepp Messing most of the time. Doesn't make excuses for players bad plays. case in point, last's nights commentary during the send off on the Metros. Called the players actions stupid. Not thinking, what did he expect would happen. Classic non-homer commentator.
I saw this play. It was clearly reckless and the player earned the card. Most MLS commentators have no idea what they're talking about.
Re: Re: Is it a foul? a yellow card? Why not remove the "touches the ball first" statement?....It seems to confuse more then help?
I agree. The problem is that most commentators (from Fox Sports and/or MLS Shootout) say with their heart (home team support) and not with their mind (laws of the game). Credit Messing for comments on Addo's reckless tackle. BTW Addo was that player whom last year with the Mutiny also commited a senseless tackle on Josh Wolff that knock him out of the World Cup Qualifliers and the 2001 MLS Season. Yet he received a yellow card for it.
Re: Re: Re: Is it a foul? a yellow card? Because players, coaches and fans think that if you touch the ball before the man it's not a foul.
Simple question: what constitutes a foul if you "get the ball first"? I'm no expert, didn't grow up playing soccer, and only came to the game seriously in the last five years. I constantly hear announcers and fans say something to the effect: "the ref called a foul despite player X getting the ball first". I also see "player X" often screaming at the ref if a foul is called, making gesticulations as if to say, "see! i got the ball first!". This is often despite the fact that either a) player X either came across the body or legs to "get the ball first" or b) "player X" came through "player Y" significantly after getting the ball first and seriously upending player Y. So I'm just looking for a little clarity. Should I be applauding the ref for getting the call right (i.e., even if a player gets the ball first, if he follows through and brings a player down, it's a foul), or siding with player X who made a "good tackle" by getting the ball first, and shouldn't have been whistled for a foul. (Sorry if all this is a bit confusing. Hope it makes sense.)
If you have a look at the Laws you will notice that it is an offense for a player to make contact with an opponent in a way that is reckless, careless or uses excessive force, to be sanctioned with a direct free kick (or penalty if appropriate) and possibly a caution or dismissal. If the tackle is from behind and endangers the safety of the opponent it is a mandatory dismissal. So, even though a player gets "ball first", it may in the opinion of the referee be that the tackle was reckless etc, and therefore is whistled up. Many players and spectators however are of the belief that if the ball is contacted first, anything after that is ok. Also, it is possible that even if no contact with the opponent is made, the referee may feel that there was "playing in a dangerous manner" involved, which would be sanctioned with an indirect free kick. Hope that helps.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Is it a foul? a yellow card? Exactly my point, this phrase just seems to add more confusion then clarification. In reality, the fact that you go the ball first means almost NOTHING when the referee decided that what you have done is careless, reckless or excessively forcefull.
I'm 95% sure it was not Addo who injured Wolff. It was that guy (I forget his name) who had played for the Rhinos the previous year, and this year has returned to the Rhinos. A Trinidadian I believe (sorry, can't remember his name). The Mutiny had high hopes for this guy and he turned out to be a misery all year.
cjred, was referring to a scissor tackle made by Addo in the match against the Columbus Crew at Giants Stadium several weeks ago, that drew an immediate red card. It was from behind, late and reckless. Welcome to our board Flashman.
Sorry, Alberto. Flashman correctly identified that when cjred was talking about that tackle by Addo (against the Crew) he also referred (incorrectly) to another tackle by Addo which ended Josh Wolff's season last year. As Flashman almost got, that tackle was actually commited by Craig Demmin of the Tampa Bay Mutiny in Tampa early last season. As cjred correctly stated, it put him out for the rest of the season, and the WC Qualifiers. However, cjred incorrectly identified him as Joe Addo - Flashman got the guy right (all the other details are correct) but couldn't remember the name - Craig Demmin.