Yeah, that's less of a copout. I think any good leading listens to feedback and ideas from subordinates. "It was decided" is weak, but I will give him a bit of a pass. He knows that's his call. Omar was the other big mistake. I know it's not true but I feel like he screwed up every time he was on the field.
I guess not. The names he chose are all pretty defensible picks, with maybe like you said the one exception of Sanneh. (Especially when you have '10 Cherundolo, '14 Fabian Johnson, and currently Sergino Dest to choose from.) But, as you said, he did play out of his mind that tournament, and Arena coached him extensively at the club and national team level, so maybe he saw something to make him think the form he showed in the World Cup was closer to his true level. I think it's more the reluctance to name anybody that came after the first two cycles he coached (other than Pulisic, who he also later coached at the national team level) that surprised me. Which I think mostly would have to be in the positions he didn't name anyone for. I think there are strong shouts in the current group for all of those positions (although CB gets a bit iffy), and some good options in the '10 and '14 teams as well.
The scars from 2017 might never heal. Watching players, coaches and fans talk about it now and the emotions are still very raw. I took a hiatus from fandom during the JK era and am somewhat detached from it. Kind of glad I took that break.
Peak Sanneh is not a hard choice. Dest will have a much better career. Cherundolo was excellent for many years. But peak Sanneh would be my choice for RB. Our best all-time defense is not hard for me: Jedi at LB Pope and Onyewu (pre-knee injury version) at CB Sanneh at RB
Did anyone else note that they mentioned talking to Wynalda? ANyone know what thats about? because I dont see an episode with him anywhere.
I think they don't always release the episodes in the same order that they record them. So I expect there probably will be a Wynalda episode coming up somewhere down the line.
The name you have to include from the current generation is Jedi as left back has been such a black hole for so long for the program (unless you want to try and put John O’Brien there on a all time team). I think Pulisic is the only other guy from the current team who definitely deserves to be there but I also think the 2010 team would have some guys too (I’d take Cherundolo over Sanneh for instance).
Its a difficult thing to address because you have the WC '02 results right in front of you: Beat Portugal who were dark horses to win the whole thing after a sterling performance at Euro '00 (due recall this Portugal would go on to make the Euro '04 Final, and the WC '06 SF's proving they were indeed one of the best teams at WC '02). Drew South Korea, a team that did not lose an in regulation match at that WC until the WC semifinals (even the crazy Spain game Loss to Poland in a game Arena views as a fluke because of what their coach did (render their scouting worthless as he benched the bulk of his starters), and because he didnt have their minds right for the game, I've always argued the Pick 6 moment w/Donovan tying the game only for the goal to be disallowed while Poland scored a 2nd w/US players still arguing is the linchpin of that game. Beat Mexico in ref tainted O'Brien Handball. Outplayed Germany in ref tainted defeat. The team played pretty damn outrageously well. The team featured some special talent: Sanneh, Pope, the goal keeping, the best versions of Donovan and Beasley, McBride, Mathis at the end of his prime but post first major injury, Reyna, O'Brien. There are several players on that team that would be starters in any era in there peak. Peak Mathis was good enough to get Bayern Munich's signature (only for the MLS to sucttle it), peak O'Brien was an Ajax guy, peak Reyna played for elite teams in Scotland and good EPL and German squads, peak Donovan was big 5 legit, and EPL legit, peak Sanneh was Bundesliga, aging McBride started in the EPL for multiple years, peak Beasley made a run to the semifinals of the CL if memory serves with PSV, Pope is still the best CB ever developed by the US, we had two EPL starter caliber keepers on that team, one one of the best in the EPL. Earnie was a legit Eredivisie dude.... We forget how good they were. Mathis, healthy, pre knee injury was a flat out monster, a 5 goal in a game monster, a could beat Honduras in Honduras single handedly monster (when Honduras was fantastic), Donovan and Beasley as teens weren't as good as they were later, but they played with the energy of self-belief, only a delusional teenager can play with, McBride was in his thirties by then, how good might he have been if he could have made it to England at 20 instead? I believe the current team is our most talented ever, but the '02 team was a great example of what can happen when chemistry, coaching, and players at the peak of their powers can all come together for a few weeks in a moment. Most of those players played at their pinnacle that tournament. Probably the only ones that didn't, and clearly didn't, were Mathis, who post knee injury wasn't quite the same in terms of explosiveness, and poor Agoos, who was simply too old at that point. Every one else turned in peak performances: Earnie-Check, Sanneh-Check, Pope-Check, Llamosa-Check, Heydude-Check, Cobi-Check, Eddie Lewis-Check, McBride-Check, Donovan/Beas-Check, Reyna-Check (all WC team voted nearly scored a center half volley to tie Germany!!!).... Its complicated because when you have Barcelona/Bayern interest in Dest, Richards EPL, Ream EPL, Jedi top end EPL, Adams EPL, McKennie top end Serie A, Pulisic top end Serie A, Musah and Weah Serie A, and strikers with Ligue 1, CL, experience etc, it's all at another level, but they haven't hit a moment like the '02 guys managed. Not yet anyway. '90 found a way, even in defeat, '94 found a way (and '95) '02 found a way, '06 found a way, '10 and '14 found a way, now its thei4 turn. The truth is, the US in '02 should have been in the Semifinals if not for some bad reffing (and yes, they could have crashed out in the R16's for the same)....that's astonishing. And they didn't even have a cake group either (a semifinalist/host, a WC title contender, and a UEFA qualifier). He's not crazy, it's small sample size madness, but hey, they did it. They earned that respect on the field. This generation still hasn't. They have a chance now and two years from now.
I'm definitely biased and probably wrong, but for me no American has ever been better than Mathis in the year between his Metro debut and his injury.
Take it from somebody who was at UVa when Bruce was on his run there, it goes back a lot farther than that.
I think he suffered from the veteraness/conversvative issue in '06 as well, but there are two things that make me question that assumption: #1: He has argued that he absolutely planned on incorporating a bunch more kiddos, and turning over the roster in '18 both because some players didn't have it, and due to chemistry issues, that is not conservative. #2: The conservative take w/'06 is belied by how many players he was willing to blood and use in big games '03-'06: Martino before his injuries, Eddie Johnson, Bobby Convey pre injury, Dempsey, Twellman, I could go on and on. It is pretty clear to me that as young players made an impact, he gave them caps. What seems to have compromised '06, and I'm fairly certain of this, is injuries: O'Brien and Mathis saw their careers scuttled by injuries (in Mathis case, part of it was work habits/dedication), Wolff also suffered a serious injury, Martino suffered a career wrecking injury at the Confed Cup in '03, Eddie Johnson's knee injury in '04-'05 I forget which scuttled his momentum too, basically almost every single major attacking player on the wings or at striker or in central midfield other than Donovan went down. Even McBride got hurt. It was an endless litany of injuries, and of the guys who came up to hopefully replace them, almost all of them also got hurt: Eddie as previously mentioned, Convey, Martino, the only guys who were young and up and coming, or entering their prime who didnt were Pope, Donovan, Beasley and Dempsey, but Dempsy was only just starting to stake claim to his talent circa '05-'06, he only really started to blossom circa '07-'11. So part of '06 is definitely that Arena's choices dominated qualifying even after all the injuries (part of this was due to Honduras having a million draws, Colombia '22 qualifying style, in the SF round of qualifying. They didn't lose a game, but they also only won like 1 game, and as a result, a pair of crap sides made it into the hex ahead of them: I can't remember which from their group but I think Guatemala or El Salvador), so the Hex became a cake walk because it was a down Costa Rica, T&T, and Mexico as the top competition, instead of Mexico, Honduras, and Costa Rica, or even Panama (who weren't quite ready for prime time qualifying stakes until after they laid down markers in gold cups). I tend to think he had an avalanche of injuries to key players, a lot of veteran retirements, and the results were good, so he kept pushing forward for what was clearly a breaking team, but the team didn't show the cracks until a somewhat awful set of WC tuneups in May of '06 (they'd lose ugly and play crap in 2 of the 3 matches before playing a solid scrimmage in Germany against I think a CAF side or Australia, I forget which). But yeah, this may be a case where he was conservative to a fault, but most of '06 can be pointed at just an avalanche of injuries to key players that left us toothless in the attack in particular (no Mathis, no O'Brien, no healthy Eddie Johnson, no healthy Convey, Martino out of the program for good etc).
We don't have a lot to work off of, but he had a key assist against Mexico in CBus that was flat out gorgeous, and a stunning free kick to beat Honduras away, we know that he decimated MLS in I think 2000. He had a key assist to help us wake up in the 2nd half against Barbados in qualifying in 2000 before we risked crashing out. There's this flash of time where he's just so ----ing good, he's basically like Dempsey, except faster, and more playmaking to his game. He was basically a chance to have a faster Dempsey before Dempsey. But he was also our kind of Gazza/George Best in terms of partying, and he had the knee debacles, so becoming as good as Gazza or Best if that was ever possible was demolished before hand. He's a guy, like Steve Snow, I wonder about: the might have been/could have been to him.
Before his golazo against Honduras, Mathis got into a spat with the ref and Honduras was able to score off it. The announcer mentions losing composure on the road right before the Honduras goal. The video shows Mathis trailing the scorer before he shoots. Then Mathis redeems himself with his set piece. Btw, Agoos' back "save" was hysterical. Before Honduras goal. Enjoy
I think 2006 we were also a bit between generations as you had a huge number of guys who should have played key roles on that team who didn’t for a variety of reasons. As you and others have mentioned players like Mathis, O’Brien, Gibbs etc. I believe there was a thread on here at the time that talked specifically about how we got very unlikely with the guys who should have been the core group on the 2006 team.
He's been a jack@$$ for 30 years. Why do you think the Revs fired him? Glad the OP has finally caught on. Heckava coach, though.
He attracted good players. The players played cohesively under him, and gave 100% effort. He usually got excellent results. His weakness was too much loyalty.
wow Bruce ..... tell you what .... Nassau Community College isn't exactly where the brightest bulbs go either .... you went to Cornell after a few years - but it certainly wasn't for academics. Let's be clear - he is 72 and it is time to just go hang out upstate and chill.
It’s just my opinion, but I think people are confusing how good various players performed in 5 random games in 2002 with how good those players really were. Sanneh is a great example…yeah he balled out, but he had a club career. Cherundolo was a better player. We know this.
not true at all ... Bruce was the benefactor of great players like El Diablo, Jaime, Eddie Pope and some others .... it was a good time and he was the benefactor but he was no Klopp or Sir Alex or Pep by a long shot. He was just a good American coach and the beginning of the league. He has just not distinguished himself .... DCU fans from those days did not wear rose colored glasses.
distance between Bruce and Clint .... NY and Texas .... I guess Bruce and Clint don't see it right away .... "******** yea"
I think this is true but I also do think the 2002 did have some all time greats in it as far as the USMNT was concerned. Specifically Donovan, O’Brien, Pope, McBride, and Friedel.