Is anyone else against Whitbred?

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by johnaldo9, Aug 12, 2002.

  1. johnaldo9

    johnaldo9 New Member

    May 2, 2002
    For Months Ive been reading peoples posts saying that if Whitbred chooses to play for the US he will be a lock to start for the U-20's and eventually will be our answer at left back for the Senior nats. Does this bother anyone else? This kid has never lived in the US, he grew up playing soccer in England and is now playing soccer for an English Club team. I have always felt that youth tournaments and the world Cup are tournaments that show how soccer is played in your country, how players are DEVELOPED in your country? If this kid has learned the game in England how does that show how we develop players in the US?

    To make it clear this is a totally different case then Freddy Adu, Adu is still working to gain citizenship here, but he has been growing up playing soccer in the US. What irritates me even more is that this kid has lived in the US for a long time and is still waiting on his citizenship, while someone like David Regis, who gained citizenship eventhough he has never played a day in this country and barely speaks English, is a citizen and has represented US soccer in two world cups.

    All Im saying is that I dont think we should all be hoping that a foreigner, who has never lived in the US and has learned and developed his game in another country, CHOOSES to play for our country. Representing your country is entirely different then representing a club team, you choose your club team, you dont choose your national team (well I feel like being German today). There should be a feeling of nationalism a feeling of pride that you are repesenting the country that taught you to how to play and love the game. If we want to show the world how soccer is played in the US and how players can succeed in our youth system, we cant import our talent.
  2. NC_ODP02

    NC_ODP02 New Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    NC, USA
    Freddy Adu hasnt been living in the country that long......
  3. profiled

    profiled Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 7, 2000
    slightly north of a mile high
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    So if my father is in the air force, I live in all these different countries my dad is stationed at, and I play with the local youth teams, I become the next great thing in american soccer, you're going to come in here and snicker that i'm not american because I was "developed" in other countries, and never lived in the us? (yes I know military bases are considered american territory)?
  4. SeismicShift

    SeismicShift Red Card

    Jul 8, 2002
    Speaking of Germany, they have a number of players on their WC team that weren't German. Oliver Neuville is French and Klose is Polish. Mehmet Scholl is Turkish, but was injured.
  5. type_32

    type_32 New Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    Re: Re: Is anyone else against Whitbred?

    To be a total anal jerk, Neuville is Swiss (he speaks French). Also, you forgot Gerald Asamoah who is a native of Ghana.
  6. Dan Roudebush

    Dan Roudebush New Member

    Mar 31, 1999
    Give me a break.

    Hell let's deny citizenship to expats.
  7. johnaldo9

    johnaldo9 New Member

    May 2, 2002
    This is true but Adu is still only 13 years old and is still developing as a soccer player, and the point that I was trying to make there was that Adu is living in the United States and wants to be a citizen, Regis has never lived in the United States he became a citizen because his wife is American and only became a citizen after he realized he had no future with the French national team

    This is another good point but as you pointed out military bases are american territories and a lot of these players grow up playing with other americans and not the local youth teams, but in the case you described where a military kid grew up playing for a local youth team in a foreign country I would have no problem with that. Yes I know that contradicts my original statement but the difference here is that this kid is in another country because his family is there working to protect our country, he did not grow up in another country, realized he was not good enough to play for his national team, and becomes a citizen because he thought it would be easier for him
  8. Oakland Stomper

    Oakland Stomper New Member

    Jan 16, 2002
    Has Owen Hargreaves ever lived in England?

    Didn't stop them from capping him, now did it.

  9. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer New Member

    Sep 3, 1999
    Whitbread was born in the U.S. was he not?
  10. eneste

    eneste Member

    Mar 24, 2000
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Quite a few players these days do get to choose their national team though. You shouldn't punish a player because he has options. If we went by your criteria where do we draw the line? Is John O'Brien American enough since the majoriity of his development was in Holland? John Thorrington even left at an earlier age (13?), is he American enough? Whitbread is American, he has options, if he ends up choosing the US then great. If he doesn't have the passion for the team he probably won't be asked back.

    I could sympathize more with your argument if you just said you wanted the nats to reflect the soccer played in the parks in the US. I would disagree and say that players like Whitbread bring an international flavor which better reflect what the US is about anyway. That you are irritated that Regis is a citizen shows that it is much more insidious. If you don't like the laws talk to your representative but don't take it out on your national team.
  11. Christian Vieri grew up in Australia. David Trezuget grew up in Argentina. If Whitbred wants to play for the US, who should stop him?
  12. lablumpkin

    lablumpkin New Member

    Jun 4, 2002
    Arlington, VA
    I'm sorry.
  13. lablumpkin

    lablumpkin New Member

    Jun 4, 2002
    Arlington, VA
    Seriuosly though, I disagree with this premise. Best example is Earnie Stewart. I think I can safely assume that he learned the game mostly under Dutch coaches while living in Holland (if I am wrong, I apologize) due to his father being stationed there. And I would think that he also played with local youth teams there as well. And while he loved and continues to love the country he spent most of his life in, he has always identified himself as an American first and foremost. He wanted to play for our national team, and has been invaluable to the team for over a decade.

    So if Whitbred identifies himself as an American first, and wants to play for us, who are we to say he shouldn't be allowed to?
  14. Bethlehem

    Bethlehem New Member

    May 18, 2002

    "So if Whitbred identifies himself as an American first, and wants to play for us, who are we to say he shouldn't be allowed to?"

  15. GoDC

    GoDC Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Hamilton, VA
    Is anyone else against Whitbred

    I thought this said "Is anyone else against White Bread."

    I prefer Wheat but will eat White if that is all there is.
  16. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    I am a former ex-pat. I left the US when I was 10 months old. I lived in the States for a grand total of 3 years before turning 18.

    I am as American as you. Speaking for all former expats, go ************ yourself.
  17. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    As a leading advocate for bringing Whitbred into the US youth national team fold, my opinion on whether Zak whould play for the US or not should be pretty obvious.

    As to the bigger question, I certainly don't think we should be questioning the patriotism and claims to American citizenship of people we know nothing about.

    We know that Zak was born a US citizen. As far as I'm concerned, the debate ends there. He was born eligible to play for the US and apparently wants to play for the US.

    I have no idea how long he lived in this country but I don't think it should be germain to the top at hand. He was born eligible.

    To be clear, I'm against us pulling Regis-esque tactics just to bolster our national team. I don't think we need to get ringers in our colors.

    But if a player has lived in this country for many years but isn't yet a citizen and wants to play for the US (like a Mastroeni or an Adu) then I don't mind the USSF facilitiating the citizenship process in any way they can and when that player raises his right hand, I'll cheer for them and welcome them to the national team.

    One of the great things about our country is that it is so diverse and that diversity often includes folks who were born in the US but lived elsehwere for long stretches of their lives. Such experiences help make the US a better country and I welcome Whitbred and any other person to the national team with a similar background.

    And, the fact that he's 6-3, left-footed and playing for the reserve team of one of the top teams in Europe is just a bonus!
  18. GersMan

    GersMan Member

    May 11, 2000
    Sandon - any idea why he only played one match during the England tour? Club commitments?
  19. johnaldo

    johnaldo New Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    This is what Im talking about, having "ringers" on our national team. Players that felt they were not good enough to make their national team but see that we have a lack of depth at the position they play and find a way to become a citizen.

    I want to again restate the fact that I am a strong advocate of players like Mastroeni and Adu. And for all the ex-pats that I have pissed off on this thread I apologize and say once again I have no problem with players in military families who grew up in other countries like Earnie Stewart.

    What Im saying is lets say you were a national team caliber player, you have worked your entire life, you've run those extra sprints, taken those tough tackles, and finally have earned your spot on the national team but end up being sent to the bench (like Agoos in '98) or even bounced completely off the team because a player felt he wasnt good enough to make his national team and found a way to become a citizen through a distant family tie or through marriage. In this players case we have some decent prospects at left back (Gbandi, Gibbs, Lewis, Salyer) and if I was in their position where I had worked my whole life only to be bounced off a future world cup team by a player who has never lived a day in the US, I would be seriously ticked off
  20. The REVerend

    The REVerend New Member

    Feb 25, 2001
    Newton, MA
    Here is the million dollar question:

    "So Zak, if you were given the opportunity to play for either the United States or England, which one would you choose?"

    If the answer is "England," I'd rather not have him on the U.S. National Team. Simplistic thinking, I know. But that's how I feel.

    Now if someone has dual nationality, like Earnie Stewart, and loves the two nations more or less equally, I have no problem with him playing for either of them.
    I have no problem with ex-pats who consider themselves American. I have no problem with people like Carlos Llamosa, who came here to make a living, became a citizen, and now plays for the Nats.

    I do have a problem, however, with David Regis, who IMHO would much rather be playing in the red, white, and blue of France.

    Perhaps another way to phrase the above question is "What do you consider yourself?"

    If a player considers himself English/American, he should play for England or America. If a player considers himself French, he shouldn't play for the United States.
  21. strider026

    strider026 New Member

    Aug 7, 2002
    Americans only on National Team

    I dont know how decide the Whitbread thing. He was born in this country. How much of his life has been in England?

    I do want to say that only players born in this country should represent the US on national teams. I dont like to see naturalized citizens on the team. I feel immense national pride watching the teams play . I cannot feel that for players that have just become citizens.

    My two cents
  22. type_32

    type_32 New Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    Re: Americans only on National Team

    The defining image of America and the thing that makes us the country that we are is the melting pot. If you can't feel national pride for players like Pablo Mastroeni or (in the future) Freddy Adu who are carrying on that great tradition, I think you might be rooting for the wrong team.
  23. gnk

    gnk Member+

    Nov 1, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Americans only on National Team

    You do not understand what it means to be an American.

    I am the 1st generation of my family to be born in the US. My father did not move here until 1959, when he was 30 years old. He has "immense national pride" for the U.S., more so than 99% of people born in this country, IMHO. Moreover, he attends every Nats game that's played at RFK and roots for the U.S., regardless of whom they play.

    Take a look at your family tree. I bet it does not go too far back until you find someone who was not born in the U.S., but who moved here at some point in life. Recite your post to that ancestor of yours (or imageine doing so, if s/he is not alive).
  24. metroflip73

    metroflip73 Member

    Mar 3, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This thread again.

  25. Preston North End

    Feb 17, 2000
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do agree somewhat about the "Regis" type player. He had his shot at a World Cup by becoming a U.S. citizen. Though, as someone has already said in this thread, or at least alluded to, how does anybody posting here really know that this was his only reason to become a U.S. citizen? IIRC, his wife was pretty fired up about him being a U.S. citizen. If it was his only reason - to play in the World Cup - I don't like it, like most here don't.

    As far as Whitbred is concerned, he's a U.S. citizen. He is just choosing to get is soccer training in England (This might be largely due to his father's position at the club). This is similar to my wife attending University in Europe.

    If Whitbred is a regular starter for the Liverpool reserve team, my guess is he could be good enough to play for the England U21's as well as the U.S. U21's.

    On the flip side, if Whitbred is pulling a "Regis" and using his citizenship to play for the USNT, AND doesn't give a rip about being a U.S. citizen, then I have a problem with him in the USNT set-up. BTW, I'm not saying that this is what Regis did.

    Until there is proof of this...don't assume he is not a red-white-and-blue U.S. citizen and doesn't want to represent his country, but just enhance his chances of possibly playing in a World Cup.

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