Interesting new memo - Treason to some, but not to the rest

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by house18, Nov 4, 2003.

  1. house18

    house18 Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    St. Louis, MO
  2. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that the only thing more shocking than that memo would be a Republican internal memo stating that they should politicize a **************.

    Actually, I'll tell you what's even more shocking than that: A dog licking its nuts.

    No, wait, I've got it: The sun rising in the east every morning.

    Politicians are acting like politicians -- SHOCKING!
     
  3. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course, all the whining about the Democrats' politicizing the Bush Administration's sexed-up rationalization for war in Iraq is to distract us from one very important issue:

    The fact that the issue exists in the first place and that the administration fluffed up the reasons for war. If the administration hadn't run their yaps for months about mushroom clouds and nerve gas and such, we wouldn't have an issue to so unfairly politicize, would we?
     
  4. house18

    house18 Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    St. Louis, MO
    Excellent job avoiding the issues in the memo! Somehow I bet if this was a Republican memo you'd be throwing a hissy fit.
     
  5. Garcia

    Garcia Member

    Dec 14, 1999
    Castro Castro
    No, no, no...

    That was Tony Blair who sexed-up the intel.
    Those Brits have that odd humor, you know.

    Then again, I liked when Benny Hill would sex things up. Hey, I was like 10 years old and we didn't have cable.
     
  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    House, I don't get it.
     
  7. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll put it to you this way: I'm not surprised by the memo, and to be honest, I'd be a little disappointed in the Democrats if they didn't make a campaign issue of the Bush administration's... how shall I put this... stretching of the truth about the intelligence that they had about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction. (Of course, these days, that intelligence has been reduced to "Saddam had impure thoughts about weapons of mass destruction a few weeks previous to the invasion.")

    The Republicans made a campaign issue about lying about a **************, so why shouldn't the Democrats make a campaign issue about lies -- er, excuse me, "inaccurate intelligence" -- that are getting American soldiers killed on a daily basis?
    And you'd lose that bet.

    I'm damn cynical and I don't exactly blow a gasket when I see politicians acting like politicians. In fact, I think such candor is refreshing, instead of this "I'm an outsider and therefore above it all" bullcrap we get so often from politicians.
     
  8. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And might I add that if this is the best thing that Republicans can find to complain about, they're getting awfully soft.
     
  9. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Here is the way the story was reported by the LA times:

    www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-intel5nov05,1,7775046.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

    Really there is nothing surprising about this Memo. The democrats have been transparent in their intentions of wanting to politicize any intelligence problems to try to weaken the administration and the CIA at the expense of weakening the nation.

    It is obvious that the democrats are not interested in launching an investigation in order to improve the gathering of intelligence and learn from our past mistakes. All they want to do is find problems so they can expose them publically to America and the world in the hope that it will help them regain power. They care not for the negative ramifications of showing our weaknesses to our enemies, even at a time of war.

    So, given their strategies, can we trust democrats with sensitive national security information? Can we expect them to be responsible in how they use that information? I am afraid not.

    The purpose of the investigation should be to identify and clarify the problems of our intelligence gathering and interpretation, so we can try to correct them. Obviously the CIA is not working correctly when in the last decade they slept while Al Qaeda set up a worldwide organization to attack America. And obviously the CIA is not working correctly when they overestimate Hussein's success in his efforts to obtain WMD's. We need to investigate the agency, but this should be a bipartisan effort and the details should be kept from the public and especially from our enemies who are likely to take advantage of any weaknesses that we reveal to them.

    Well, my last point about keeping it from the public is debatable. But what is not debatable is that such an inquire should be conducted with the purpose of improving our nation's effectiveness in gathering and interpreting intelligence, especially given the new challenges posed by our new enemies. What we certainly don't need is a witchhunt conducted strategically and specifically for partisan gain at the risk of weakening our nation, as the democrats have been attempting to do and, according to this story, are apparently plotting to continue to do.
     
  10. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks to me like you're politicizing an investigation into the shortcomings by our intelligence agencies in the run-up to the war in Iraq. It would appear that you're not doing too much better than the Democrats. If you wanted to do better, you should've just stopped at "Tsk, tsk."

    Like I said, I'm not particularly trusting of people who claim to "be above the political process."
     
  11. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Re: Interesting new memo

    That would be almost as bad as if they decided to politicize the tragic murder of 3,000 or so people. But nobody would be that callous.
     
  12. Richth76

    Richth76 New Member

    Jul 22, 1999
    Washington, D.C.
    Re: Interesting new memo

    From the article (quoting Jay Rockefeller):

    ---
    "The draft memo was not approved nor was it shared with any member of the Senate Intelligence Committee or anyone else,"

    "It was likely taken from a waste basket or through unauthorized computer access."
    ---

    Sounds like a conspiracy to me.

    House, if you screwed up really bad at work and your co-worker from another department sent a memo to a third co-worker discussing how they were going to out you and your screw up to the boss, that would be bad?
     
  13. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Isn't it amazing that you can't spell "posted by argentine soccer fan" without using the letters in "irony"

    You mean like debating whether or not to turn over documents pertaining to 9/11? Instead of just turning them over so we can get closer to the truth?

    How much did **************-gate cost American taxpayers again?

    Which might not sound so ridiculous if the current Republican administration hadn't placed us in a perpetual "time of war." Might.

    Yeah, they might "massage" intelligence as a reason to go to war when we don't need to, which would be tragic.

    Skipping the CIA part, 'cause, well, whatever.

    As to the above, how exactly would you characterize a multi-million dollar taxpayer-funded investigation into whether the president did anything wrong in a $30,000 land deal that morphed into whether or not he lied about getting his knob polished?

    Or are you just a simpleton moron?
     
  14. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Interesting new memo

    Absolutely.

    When's the Republican convention? I know it's gotta be before Labor Day next year, because of ballot access laws.
     
  15. Finnegan

    Finnegan Member

    Sep 5, 2001
    Portland Oregon
    I mean no party would be callous enough to hold their convention in NYC to coincede with the anniversary of the attacks.

    This is hilarious. Argie - your really funny. Suddenly Democrats are the biggest threat to national security because they are asking the administration to be held accountable for their lies and deceit.

    Never mind that perhaps the fact that this administration lied, obsfucated and led us into an unnecessary war while ignoring the real war on terror could perhaps be responsible for threathening our national security.
     
  16. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm willing to give them a shot.
    -Valerie Plame

    It's like fish in a barrel, ain't it SoFla?
     
  17. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Re: Re: Re: Interesting new memo

    Bush's acceptance speech for the Republican nomination is scheduled for Sept. 2
     
  18. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    It's like he wrote down everything bad, stupid and possibly illegal the Republicans have done over the last decade and did a Search & Replace to put the word Democrat in there.

    One more thought. ASF said it's irresponsible to criticise the president in a time of war. Aren't we technically not at war anymore since W. did his Top Gun impersonation and declared combat operations over? Mission Accomplished, indeed!
     
  19. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fixed your post.
     
  20. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    :D

    Just FYI I seriously have about 400 things going on at work today, things I'm actually focused on. Hopefully that gives you all an idea about how hard I had to work (or not work) to debunk ASF's arguments. I look at is as a kind of stress relief.
     
  21. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Agreed. It was disgraceful for Republicans to undermine the office of the president of the United States with their attacks on president Clinton. I am convinced that the personal attacks on Clinton weakened the perception of America all over the globe and hurt our nation.

    However, the democrats are taking partisanship to a whole new level. At a time in which terrorists have organized themselves into a network to attack America, these senators are taking a committe which should be examining how to best combat this threat by improving our intelligence, and are instead attempting to turn it into some sort of partisan dirt-gathering machine which they hope will help them put down the office of the president and bring them back to power. It is despicable.
     
  22. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    Fox News' Brian Wilson and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

    Nice of AP to help out Wilson like that.

    Roberts is helping the White House stonewall the nation on the 9/11 report, and Rockefeller wants to make an issue of it. Pretty easy to guess how Fox would have spun this if you flipped the "D" and the "R."

    I can think of at least ten people who have memos, charts, and strategies on how to make the war on Iraq a political issue. Clark, Dean, Edwards, Kerry, Gephardt (well, maybe), Lieberman (perhaps), Kucinich, Sharpton, Braun, and Karl Rove. Grow up already.
     
  23. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    Although I guess "WAAAAAAH" would have been just as acceptable for fixing this post.
     
  24. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    What we accomplished was the fall of the Hussein regime. But I will submit to you that the war on terror is not over.


    This is an aside, and has nothing to do with the memo, but I cannot let it pass. This criticism of Bush for declaring 'major combat over' is a perfect example of the liberals trying to critizice Bush for anything and everything, regardless of what he does.

    Back in April liberals were criticizing Bush for NOT declaring major combat over in Iraq. They claimed that he wanted to postpone declaring the war was over so he wouldn't have to release Iraqi POW's.

    Even after the speech of May 1st, liberals were saying stuff like: 'Bush was careful not to declare combat over, so he doesn't have to release the POW's'. But now that it became more convenient for them, they critizice him for exactly the opposite reason. These people hate Bush so much that regardless of what he does they will find fault with it and repeat it over and over in the hope that it sticks.
     
  25. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes

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