I have read discussions on the difference between attacking midfielder and director, in this regard Michel Platini in an interview with Corriere della Sera in August 2023, spoke precisely about the difference between the South American number 10 and the European number 10. «There is the European number ten, who was more of an attacking midfielder, and the South American one who played further forward, almost as a second striker. More of a nine and a half than a ten, a second striker. Zidane, me, Rivera, Puskas were more organizers of the match, even if we scored a lot of goals...".
I think for Puskas it's not so clear cut though (I know we discussed his earlier years on another thead and that's more difficult to comment on of course...though not what Platini will have seen obviously). For Hungary, once they used a deep-lying centre forward especially, then it's arguably the case Puskas was as much a forward as a Zico at Flamengo at least I guess. For Real Madrid Puskas was still nominally inside left I suppose, but in essence almost the main striker, if there would be considered to be one in the team.
I'll write the relevant words from the report in text form rather than paste an attachment this time, but in the Lancashire Evening Post on the 27th of November 1946 it is said in the report about England vs Holland, as it calls the Dutch team: "The Dutchmen retaliated, and Wilkes, beating three men in a thrilling dribble, brought Swift to his knees with his final shot" "Smit sold a perfect dummy to Wright, and gave Roozen a chance. Wilkes, always conspicuous, also tested Swift" and at the end of the report, talking about the Dutch team (after noting some 'dazzling footwork' by England too): "The only man to shine was Wilkes whose smart dribbling occasionally worried the Englishmen" In another piece on the topic of professionalism, and countries best players going to play abroad, from 1950, Glanville mentions Wilkes plus two Dutch players playing in France, as well as the two Hansens playing in Italy plus Praest ("as effective in the centre as he is at outside left....also gracing the Juventus attack") and Ivan Jensen of Denmark, and in the part about Swedish players he says Gren and Carlsson that played in the Olympics were two of the finest inside forwards he's seen, then going on to talk about Gren now being at Milan with Gunnar Nordahl, with the versatile Liedholm playing as the inside left with them too. He did later put Liedholm in the top 50 of his all-time countdown though, with Gren lower down and Carlsson not there (and Nordahl a couple of places above Liedholm): https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/platini-top-ten-all-time.619847/page-10#post-19046912 I'll link to the top 25 for ease of access too while I'm at it (obviously he's included a lot of British players, though in the piece in 1950 he's saying British football hadn't got worse but other nations had caught up by the 1930s, helped by British coaches going abroad; he does imply the war didn't help British football and led to a lack of new talent emerging and a tendency for younger players to rely on speed more than skill though): https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/platini-top-ten-all-time.619847/page-10#post-19039651
Liedholm played regularly as right half for Milan from 1954-55 - but that is of course after the World Cup. Gren in midfield would always be unusual. But it's a role he would for sure be able to do well, with his vision and skill. It's quite usual that inside forwards that is moved down to midfield play on opposite side of what they did as IF. Sheffield Wednesday had an example in Alf Strange late 1920s (IL to RH). And you have Johnny Carey that played as inside left at Man. United, then moved to right back after WW2 - and towards end of career right half mostly. Playing people 'out of position' is also something Sweden did in 1948 Olympics, when Rosén (half-back, primarily right) played right winger to get all the best players in the team. And Liedholm pushed out to left wing, of course. Skoglund as outside left I would not call out of position, even though it was not his main position yet. He did play outside left against Juventus in April 1954 for example (number 11, 6-0 win). Maybe Gustavsson instead of Johansson as RB would be better, though, in that team I made. They were both CH. I saw at least one lineup for Sweden where Gustavsson played RB. Johansson left for France/Marseille after 1950 World Cup, and only played two matches, as CH, for Sweden. Gustavsson also played RB for Europe 1955 as you write. I saw that Gustavsson is described as a libero for Udinese, on Wikipedia. It's probably not completely wrong to list a CH in midfield, but over time it became more a defensive position, so I think 3-2-5/3-2-2-3 is more correct for most teams. Hungary vs. Sweden picks: Having watched footage of all three, I would have selected both Gren and Liedholm over Bozsik. Goalkeeper would clearly be Grosics - great shot stopper, but not the best in field work. Have not seen much footage of Svensson, though. But it has to be Grosics that gets the call. Czibor is probably the best winger, though I would probably prefer the Swedes if taking a pair. I would take Hungary's rest of attack (Puskás, Hidegkuti and Kocsis), although Sweden had a strong attack too - all three CF, really, with Andersson scoring 19 in Ligue 1 1953-54, Nordahl and Jeppson top two in Serie A; 23 and 19 goals. Andersson is third in France, but he was first with 35 goals the year before. I would prefer Sweden's defence, but maybe pick one of the Hungarian full-backs, since Bergmark is the only proper RB/LB. I guess Bergmark is mostly known as RB, but I think he played more caps as LB for Sweden in total. I think Sweden would have a stronger squad in 1954 than 1950 with pros included. In 1950 it's also in South America, where Europeans never won before Germany in 2014. And Brazil were really strong and trashed Sweden 7-1. I don't think Sweden would know how to handle Brazil in 1950 anyhow. Sweden is probably the second strongest team in 1950 World Cup already without pros, though. Against Uruguay they were 2-1 up until Egon Jönsson got injured - with no substitutions that is a huge handicap. Uruguay managed to get two goals after that; with the 3-2 winner-goal coming in the 85th minute. Uruguay needed to beat Sweden to have a chance to 'steal' the World Cup in last match against Brazil - which they famously did. In 1954 you have lots of pros that have experience from playing in what I probably think had been the best league in world for a few years. I think I would for sure consider a full strength Sweden as closest contender behind Brazil 1950 and Hungary 1954. Playing the pros would change the 1950 World Champion to Brazil - and result in silver, not bronze for Sweden, I think. In 1954 I think it's possible Sweden could have beaten Hungary and be champions - but very hard to say since you don't know at all how well a full strength Sweden would have played, or which players would actually be selected. -------- RE: England - Rest of World 1953 (rest of Europe, really), that you mentioned. I saw this match on YouTube some months ago, the oldest match I have seen in full. Nordahl didn't impress, he looked slow, but you can see on his statistics that he, in general, is really dangerous in front of goal until 1956. Boniperti was the most impressive in that attack, from what I remember. England got a ridiculous penalty right at the end to save a draw. I also remember Beara's great save in second half - I guess that is main reason for his fame/reputation. In first half Zeman was the goalkeeper, and he gets questioned by the commentator a couple of time. I can agree with that, from what I have seen he seems a bit overrated. He wasn't undisputed first choice for Austria either. In 1954 World Cup, when Zeman is just turned 27, he only plays one of five matches (1-6 loss to West Germany. Kurt Schmied played the other four. Actually Zeman only plays one more match for Austria after 1954, in 1960 against Scotland - so I wonder a bit where his legend-reputation comes from. The claim that Beara at some point where the best goalkeeper in world also seems a bit generous, in my opinion. ------- From that Europe XI 1952 that you mention I have barely heard about (Karl) Stotz. He participated in two World Cups for Austria I see, but played only one game. Froggatt is a little bit more known name for me, but not much. I see he mostly played for England in 1952, and almost none other years, so that is probably the reason. Arne Selmosson, inside right, didn't become pro until summer 1954, so he could have been selected for Sweden, but only played once in 1953 and two times 1951. He played one more match later on, in World Cup 1958 against Wales, 0-0. Last game of group stage, with Sweden already through, and 99% sure of first place in group. 0-3 loss would have meant they would lose top spot to Wales. I dont really know about Gre-No-Li's peaks, but I would think they improved as players playing in Italy. Gunnar Nordahl was the first pro, signing for Milan in January 1949. His debut (27 January 1949 against Pro Patria, 3-2 win) is said to have been a failure (first half) and he thought at half time that after the match he should give up and go home, but in second half he scored a goal and situation changed. This is what he himself said - I think it's a bit overdramatic. Even if he had played whole game bad, he would still probably get four or five more opportunities, and with his talent he could not have failed in so many matches in row, I would think. --------- I think in short term the WW2 could have been good for English football, as some have said before (best players playing more together etc.), but a few years down the road it's clearly harmful (lack of new talents etc. that Glanville writes).
Stotz was in the preliminary squad for the 1953 FIFA/Europe('World') XI) (as was Di Stefano - when the squad arrived in England a few weeeks later it had 16 in it, without Di Stefano, though) Stotz had played one half in the game in Amsterdam, but Navarro was preferred in the final XI I guess. Zemen made impressive saves in this game with Hungary earlier in 1953 I noticed: I found an article in which Glanville said he'd have made Sweden favourites if they had all their players for 1950, but now he says Brazil. He mentioned Gren-Nordahl-Carlsson-Liedholm. The article was from February 1950 and he is tipping Scotland as best European contenders even though they decided not to participate in the end of course (deciding of their own accord they'd only go if they won the British championship and they ended 2nd to England) - he stated Cowan, Waddell and especially Steel were among the finest players in the world at that time. He was not very enthusiastic about England's chances, in part due to lack of International fixtures being played, but he picked out Mortensen, and Finney, noting his body swerve and footwork. He also rated Italy, despite the air disaster and losing Mazzola, Bicigalupo, Loik (the names he mentioned himself) and as well as mentioning Moro and Parola he picked out Amadei and Carapalese and especially Rinaldo Martino who he said was one of the most elusive inside lefts he'd ever seen (he only played once for Italy in the end though, in that period when he'd moved from Argentina to play for Juventus). He doubted Italy had enough finishing capability though, despite the approach play. He thought Spain may be tough to crack and that Zarra was dangerous, and he regretted that Hungary were not going to be there and said they must nearly be Europe's best team at that stage. Froggatt was well-rated in England I think as centre back, though also played as left winger interestingly (that might seem an unlikely pair of positions to excel in, though apparently Branko Zebec, who was in that 1952 Europe XI and played in the 1953 FIFA XI of course, did so himself, and apparently Neil Ruddock used to be a left winger, and even Des Walker in youth footballl, as stated by Teddy Sheringham - I guess it can make some sense considering players with very good pace and/or capability to cross well with their left foot...and Froggatt had both of those things I believe). You can see him playing as left winger in this game: I believe Nordahl was really thought of as a top player when Milan signed him and didn't take long to settle I guess, but sometimes players can find initial adaptation tricky (like Robert Pires in early Arsenal games as a random example, even though he was a different type of player to Nordahl of course). Once they'd added Gren and Liedholm they became famous as the Gre-No-Li pretty quickly and Milan were potent in attack in 1949/50 of course. From very brief footage including from the Olympics (not available now though I think) I would tend to say the relatively younger Nordahl of the late 40s/early 50s seemed more capable than as of mid 50s (some of the mid 50s Milan goals on Youtube do seem a bit 'easy' in terms of the defence being wide open, not to discredit his goal tallies still though or ignore some nicely taken important goals he still had). His ratings on DBS Calcio are not bad as such for mid 50s but I think he was seen as the top striker in Italy in his early time there. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/various-stuff-i-found-from-the-40s-60s.2092755/#post-37409448
Oh the other thing I had meant to clarify was I was thinking mainly in terms of 1954 when I mentioned Uruguay. In notice this comment in an article by a journalist who was mingling with the Uruguay squad during the World Cup now too (he's alluding to them being favourites to win against England and saying whoever can win vs Uruguay can win the World Cup....although it didn't turn out that way with what happened in the Final of course): I also happened to see that Man City wanted to buy Kubala in 1952 after seeing him play while on tour (with comments about him being the best inside forward "they'd ever seen" - without details about exactly who 'they' were and who they'd previously seen). That was right after his great Barcelona season of 51/52; Real Madrid were still trying to buy him at that time too apparently.
Don't know where to put it but this is weird 📽️ #ITVFootball Archive 📽️You could listen to Johan Cruyff speak about football all dayHis analysis of the 1973 #FACup final, between @LUFC and @SunderlandAFC is fascinating 👀 pic.twitter.com/BXtUANG5uF— ITV Football (@itvfootball) August 2, 2024 He is a pundit here and this is before the 1973 European Cup final... the league season was not over either. Quite strange. https://www.wsc.co.uk/stories/getting-into-europe-the-1973-common-market-match/
Frogatt looked impressive in that match, nice assist to Rowley on 1-0, and also 5-0. Two assist and a goal - that's a great debut. I see he also scored a goal in 1952 against Wales, playing as CH, but he got injured some minutes before and were out of game for a few minutes. I guess he played outside left when coming back on pitch. Billy Wright played CH in second half, is stated. And one assist against Ireland in game before (2-2, that saved a draw for England close to full time). Merrick, the English goalkeeper, didn't look good. Something I have noticed before too. The other clip involving Austria and Hungary was nice too, but I didn't see any great saves from Zeman, in my view. ----- Yeah, I mainly thought about 1954 when you mentioned Uruguay. In 1958 they didn't qualify, of course. I would rate a full strength Sweden above Uruguay for whole of 1950s though. The journalist made a error in describing Martínez as half back - surely full back. But else it seems a good piece. ------- Finally I see I had a mix-up between Udinese and Atalanta in my words about Gustavsson. I guess because Bengt Lindskog played for Udinese.
Sorry, I put the wrong Hungary-Austria clip in before I realise! This one re: Zemen (luckily I'd previously made a post about it to refer to to remind me which game it was without looking at the video): Yeah, Froggatt scored from a Finney cross again vs Wales of course (after doing the same in that 1949 game too) - this maybe what you linked in your post anyway but I'm just making a quick post so haven;t checked that right now:
Hi mate, Maybe this thread have some interesting info for you https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/world-cup-1950-retconned.2080065/
I heard it was said three yellow cards at the end there, so I thought it could be because of suspension. And Transfermarkt confirms that - suspended for the league match against Sparta Rotterdam on the next day (6th May). European Final was 30th May. Next league match 13th May.
Bobby Charlton's World XI ('All-Time') as cited in the Coventry Evening Telegraph in October 1967, but apparently taken from his book 'Forward for England': Bert Trautmann; Djalma Santos, Kalman Meszoly, Silvio Marzolini; Jozsef Bozsik, Duncan Edwards; Janos Gorocs, Pele; Garrincha, Alfredo Di Stefano, Francisco Gento (Near misses: Eusebio, Ferenc Puskas, Stanley Matthews, Tom Finney, Lev Yashin, John Charles, Antonio Rattin, Nilton Santos, Denis Law, Dave Mackay)
AMERICA CALI ALL TIME 11 - AMERICA CALI MAGAZINE #100 FALCIONI(MONTAÑO), CHAROL GONZALEZ,ARCANGEL BRITOS,EDUARDO REYES,PASCUTINI,GILBERTO CUERO, BARBY ORTIZ, GERARDO GONZALEZ AQUINO, RAMON CACERES,ROBERTO CABANAS
PAULO ROBERTO FALCAO ALL TIME XI - PLACAR MAGAZINE 1999 DINO ZOFF, CARLOS ALBERTO, BARESI, FIGUEROA , CABRINI BECKENBAUER , MARADONA , RIVELLINO GARRINCHA , PELE, CRUYFF
TOSTAO ALL TIME XI - PLACAR MAGAZINE 1999 LEV YASHIN, CARLOS ALBERTO, FIGUEROA , BARESI , NILTON SANTOS BECKENBAUER, MARADONA, CRUYFF(PLATINI), DI STEFANO , PELE, GARRINCHA
DON GUILLERMO RUIZ MILLONARIOS ALL TIME XI PEDRO IVALDA, ARTURO SEGOVIA, CHONTO GAVIRIA , JOHN POCILLO DIAZ, ORECO ALEJANDRO BRAND(NESTOR ROSSI), OSCAR JAMARDO, ADOLFO PEDERNERA. WILLINGTON ORTIZ, DI STEFANO, ARNOLDO IGUARAN
Interesting. He says that "Nilton Santos was as good as Beckenbauer". Another thing that caught my attention is when he says that "Garrincha didn't just dribble. He passed and crossed with perfection."
BENFICA ALL TIME XI - RECORD 2008 BENTO,ARTUR,GERMANO, HUMBERTO COELHO, ALVARO, RUI COSTA, COLUNA, JOSE AUGUSTO, CHALANA, EUSEBIO , RUI AGUAS