Ideas for replacing shoot outs

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by benine, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. benine

    benine New Member

    Jul 22, 2002
    Chicago
    Lets hear them.

    My idea is to play "elemination golden goal" after the first two golden goal periods. Every 5 minutes, each team has to take one player off the pitch for up to a 25 minute period (5 players, duh). The more players leave, the more the game opens up and more chances will be had. The order of players to leave the field is pre-determined by the manager before the elemination periods start, much the way a manager hands in a lineup for penalties. It would require a massive amount of strategy, i.e. taking off an attacking player vs a defender, and would also make the punishment that much more severe for a team that gave a red card during the match (as it is now, a team can loose any number of players and be saved by the shootout). If, after the sides are 6 v 6 (or less, depending on cards, see above) and STILL even after an extra 10 minutes (bringing it to a 35 minute period), THEN go to the shoot out with those players.
    Sure, it would be totally punishing, but it's meant to award the better fit players, the fresher players (i.e. subs) and make the manager really plan a strategy for extra time, as well as punish teams for having lost a player. The deeper it gets without goals, the more the breakaway chances as well as being less likely to see players giving fouls. Anyway, this is my idea, just curious if anyone else has a solution to the worst part of the game.
     
  2. domingo

    domingo Member

    Jun 26, 2002
    Hanover
    Club:
    FC Hansa Rostock
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I am for keeping the shot outs. I am against to many changings in the game. I think golden goal is bad. The best thing: play 30 minutes nad after that shoot out. That´s the best way.

    domingo
     
  3. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    If it aint broke don't fix it, the substitution idea is crazy. Get rid of golden goal and keep extra time and penaltys.
     
  4. counterattack

    counterattack New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    I wish I could two by four every so-called football fan who somehow thinks that penalty shots are okay, and that Penalty Kick Shoot Outs do not need to be eliminated. You jackasses are insane. period.

    Here it is, so even the braindead can understand...

    THE PENALTY SHOT SHOOT OUT IS AN ABOMINATION. IT IS A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY. IT SHOULD BE A DEATH PENALTY CRIME. IT BELITTLES FOOTBALL. IT SHAMES THE GAME. IT MAKE MONKEYS OUT OF THOSE WHO ARE FORCED TO WATCH IT. . .

    is this getting through to you yet? No?

    THE PENALTY KICK SHOOT OUT TAKES THE BEAUTIFUL GAME AND TURNS IT INTO A BAD CIRCUS SIDE SHOW.
    IT IS A FOUL AND UGLY THING, AND ANYTHING, ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN THE PENALTY KICK SHOOTOUT.

    I applaud this thread for trying to solve a cancer in the body of real football. You idiots, you morrons, you half-wits, you mental turds who think the Penalty Kick shoot out is just alright, need to get to an institution where you can be watched 24 hours a day so that you do not hurt yourselves or others.
     
  5. benine

    benine New Member

    Jul 22, 2002
    Chicago


    Well put. I think it's an american thing to think that the shoot out is okay because we've never suffered the agony of lossing a cup/game to a shoot out. I've played too many tournament finals that go to shoot outs (one is too much, fyi), games that my side has DOMINATED, only to be thrown off because some damned halfwit goalie guesses correctly. It leaves way too much to chance for how solid and balanced the rest of the great game is, belongs in the NBA or NFL and NOT in any FIFA sanctioned event/league.
     
  6. nicodemus

    nicodemus Member+

    Sep 3, 2001
    Cidade Mágica
    Club:
    PAOK Saloniki
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not to keen on the idea of the golden goal until two 15 minute overtimes have already occured.

    If after 30 mins of OT without goals, just have them keep switching ends every 10 mins until someone scores. Then perhaps these weenies from other countries will realize that the Americans and Koreans having "amazing fitness" is a good thing, and perhaps should work on that aspect of the game themselves.
     
  7. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    Even the most half witted inbred can see Golden Goal is far worse then Penaltys and are a cancer to football. Even the most half witted inbreds first cousin can also see that I'm not American and my team actually went out of the world cup on penaltys. The bring someone off after five minutes is a crazy idea I've seen before, it just doesn't make sense. You're obviously quite young because there was a time that when cup ties we're level after extra time the winner was decided by a toss of a coin, anybody can see penaltys is superior to this. Penaltys are a test of nerve and bottle, they aren't purley random, whereas Golden Goal is just a disaster, penalty shoot outs are the lesser of two evils.

    Facts are the taking someone off thing wont work and also you can't play for ever. On top of that you can't repeat matches in a world or european cup, you have to find away of seperating the tie. The only thing better the penos I've ever seen are the taking the ball from the halfway line 1 on 1 with the keeper dealie but that is a bit unfair as it favours the more attacking side which isn't too good a thing.
     
  8. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The old MLS-style "35-yard live" shootout was a good idea, just misused. It shouldn't ever have been used to decide regular-season matches. However, I think it does have a use in knockout tournaments, as a replacement for the penalty shootout. More of an emphasis on skill, and less on simply guessing correctly.
     
  9. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    I'd be for 30 minutes of NON GOLDEN GOAL extra time and the 35 yard thing, the only problem is it favours certain teams, for example say Liverpool played Arsenal, there'd only be one winner every time if it went to this.
     
  10. detroitexpress

    detroitexpress New Member

    Oct 24, 2000
    Detroit
    I've sometimes tried to envision some sort of tie breaker based on taking turns taking direct free kicks from fixed positions.
     
  11. Treetaliano

    Treetaliano Member

    Jun 29, 2002
    San Diego
    Why does everyone hate Golden Goal? At least it settles matters ON the field. I personally love GG and hope it is never taken away.
     
  12. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    That'd be crazy, all the teams with free kick specialists would romp to victory every tme

    Golden goal is crap, it isn't fair. Why should the team be denied the chance of a come back? On top of that it encourages defencive counter attacking football and denies us some of the greatest ever football moments like that match, I think it was Germany france, where there was around 5 goals scored in extra time. Take the UEFA cup final that Liverpool won, that whole match was open and every time one team scored the other seemed to equalise, in extra time Alavez would have had that chance and could have taken it but now with the rubbish Golden Goal rule that's taken away.
     
  13. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United FC STILL USOC Champs
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I'd like to see the full 30 minutes of OT come back, but I'm not all that opposed to GG.

    I admit that the shootout is kind of bogus, but no way should it be done away with- if two teams are tied after 120 minutes, adding more time to the play on the pitch with exhausted players will only result in more injuries than goals.

    Anything that ends the game "prematurely" (in a manner not consistent with the normal run of play, such as the PK shootout) is going to suck just as much as the PKs. Pick your poison.
     
  14. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United FC STILL USOC Champs
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Baggio, Donadoni, Batty, Baresi, Platini, Pearce. Skilled players all. World Cup PK missers all. Not saved- missed the target completely.

    Part of a player's skill is his ability to perform under pressure. The 35-yard thing would require just as much skill, but it wouldn't resemble the run of the game any more han PKs do.
     
  15. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United FC STILL USOC Champs
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It's a club/national program's responsibility to buy/develop free kick talent just like they buy/develop other skills. If the team with skilled dead ball players came out on top in this scenario, it wouldn't reflect on any unfairness witin the game- it would reflect on the losing team's lack of scouting/training where dead balls are concerned.
     
  16. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    It'd mean basically Ireland would go into one and two minutes before they end they'd throw on Ian Harte to win the match for us every time we played one despite him not being part of the first team, just doesn't seem right to me.
     
  17. counterattack

    counterattack New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
     
  18. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good. Let's encourage attacking play.
     
  19. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United FC STILL USOC Champs
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I see your point, but you simply have to groom a player who can play the full 90 and then win with his foot from 20 meters or so. Like Roberto Carlos, Ronaldinho or Beckham.
     
  20. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    but whats to stop you just throwing Harte on with two seconds to go to win the match?
     
  21. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How well does attacking play correlate into shootout success? Let's look at 1999, the last year that MLS used the shootout.

    San Jose
    10-3 in shootout (76.9%, 1st)
    7th in league
    48 goals scored, 6th/7th
    49 goals allowed, 7th

    DC United
    6-3 in shootout (66.7%, 2nd/3rd)
    1st in league
    65 goals scored, 1st
    43 goals allowed, 6th

    Colorado Rapids
    6-3 in shootout (66.7%, 2nd/3rd)
    5th in league
    38 goals scored, 9th/10th
    39 goals allowed, 4th/5th

    Columbus Crew
    6-4 in shootout (60.0%, 4th)
    6th in league
    48 goals scored, 6th/7th
    39 goals allowed, 4th/5th

    Miami Fusion
    5-4 in shootout (55.6%, 5th)
    9th in league
    42 goals scored, 8th
    59 goals allowed, 11th

    LA Galaxy
    3-4 in shootout (42.9%, 6th)
    2nd in league
    49 goals scored, 5th
    29 goals allowed, 1st

    Tampa Bay Mutiny
    5-7 in shootout (41.7%, 7th/8th)
    8th in league
    51 goals scored, 3rd/4th
    50 goals allowed, 8th

    New England Revolution
    5-7 in shootout (41.7%, 7th/8th)
    10th in league
    38 goals scored, 9th/10th
    53 goals allowed, 9th/10th

    Chicago Fire
    3-5 in shootout (37.5%, 9th/10th)
    4th in league
    51 goals scored, 3rd/4th
    36 goals allowed, 3rd

    Metrostars
    3-5 in shootout (37.5%, 9th/10th)
    12th in league
    32 goals scored, 12th
    64 goals allowed, 12th

    Dallas Burn
    3-6 in shootout (33.3%, 11th)
    3rd in league
    54 goals scored (2nd)
    35 goals allowed (2nd)

    Kansas City Wizards
    2-6 in shootout (25.0%, 12th)
    11th in league
    33 goals scored (11th)
    53 goals allowed (9th/10th)

    This is interesting... strong attacking teams like Chicago and Dallas were unable to win shootouts, while San Jose and Colorado, both of which were not particularly good at attacking, were very successful in shootouts.
     
  22. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United FC STILL USOC Champs
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Limited subs, as it is now. I forgot to mention in the previous post that I am totally opposed to adding subs.

    But if you're going to use unlimited subs, why not let the game go on until someone scores a GG, or use repeated full OTs until one team is ahead at the end of a series?
     
  23. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    What if you've only used two subs on purpose, tatically knowing you've a free kick specialist on the bench who will win the match for you? isn't fair.
     
  24. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United FC STILL USOC Champs
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    How in the world is any of this unfair if both sdes know the rules before the start of the season? That's part of what scouts and coaches are for- helping a team adapt.

    We're stuck between a rock and a hard place here. The only ways to avoid adding an unnatural twist to the game are to: 1) Let play continue until there is a clear winner at the end of some designated time period series, like the NBA. 2) Let play continue until a GG is scored, like playoff hockey, or 3) schedule a rematch- which could get unnatural if some hack takes out the opponent's star forward with seconds to spare in the first game's OT.
     
  25. thacharger

    thacharger New Member

    May 19, 2002
    Southaven, MS
    Re: Re: Ideas for replacing shoot outs

    Ah, the beautiful game in action. I think its funny your team lost.
     

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