I was all for the Chivas expansion, but now...

Discussion in 'Archives: CD Chivas USA' started by Roehl Sybing, Oct 16, 2003.

  1. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    I dunno. Taking stock, it seems like there is more than enough demand for two expansion teams without Vergara. Not that we'll turn into a 20-team league overnight, but at least a 12-team league in 2005 with (my picks) Cleveland and Houston. I even think there is support enough so that San Diego can have their own team without the Chivas banner. Certainly would be preferable to a team that dictates terms to the league.

    Or maybe I'm nuts.
     
  2. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Probably the latter...

    Why turn our back to a guy who is filthy rich, soccer knowledgeable, loves to be on camara, can get airtime on Univision and Telemundo ANYTIME he wants (i.e. to promote MLS/Chivas), and who expressly wishes to cater to the Latino market, which, btw, SLAUGHTERS the Anglophone market when it comes to watching soccer.

    Which team can claim that? All the MLS teams cater to a difficult market to convince. Take away the Latino fans from MLS and you have numbers frighteningly close to WUSA.
     
  3. BulaJacket

    BulaJacket Member

    May 9, 2003
    Denver / Cleveland / MN / Jax
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because MLS loses all credibility if it completely changes its rules to cater to Vergara. The quality of play may not even be affected, nor would this be an issue if changes are compromised on and done league wide. But if Vergara is able to demand that MLS, our top domestic league, implements rule changes, then MLS is a joke. I was on the side of Vergara for MLS, but this article may be changing my opinion.

    http://www.ussocceruk.com/news/?CatTypeId=2&ContentId=982
     
  4. Wallydrag

    Wallydrag BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 24, 2002
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What puzzles me is that we're letting this guy dictate all these demands while letting him enter MLS at a discounted rate of $6million instead of the $10million.

    Any ideas?
     
  5. efren95

    efren95 Member

    Apr 20, 2000
    Republic of Texas
    You aren't and they aren't...

    That is, you are not nuts... and Chivas are not demanding...

    On the contrary, they are accomodating and with Garber's blessing will come to a compromise very soon.

    Wait till you see Chivas' impact on MLS and then you'll be in a better position to assess the final result on the league...

    Trust me, Chivas will only increase passion and excitement in MLS...
     
  6. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    it's what the market will bear. In addition, think of it this way: he brings a brings a brand name (Chivas) that is instantly recognizable to footie fans. He also does his part by always being present in the media. I think these two factors might be worth $4 million in and of themselves. And he's able to sustain more losses over a longer period of time, unlike the Miami owner.
     
  7. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    If the product on the field is quality, case closed as to any "credibility" issues. If MLS sides go the way of the Burn, and the USMNT starts to lose again to "countries" like Aruba in pre-WC qualifying, THEN we will lose credibility.

    BTW, there are some links floating around that address (and categorically deny) these statements by Vergara's ppl. Any changes will be league-wide.
     
  8. Various Styles

    Various Styles Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Originally posted by uclacarlos
    Why turn our back to a guy who is filthy rich, soccer knowledgeable, loves to be on camara, can get airtime on Univision and Telemundo ANYTIME he wants (i.e. to promote MLS/Chivas), and who expressly wishes to cater to the Latino market, which, btw, SLAUGHTERS the Anglophone market when it comes to watching soccer.

    Soccer Knowledgeable he is not. Vergara is fairly new to Futbol. Sisnierga has been the one hadeling the decisions at Chivas and he too i dont think is knowledgeable. However they do have the Dutchman Hans Westerhoff as Director Deportivo and now as coach. The rest is pretty much spot on..

    Originally posted by BulaJacket
    Because MLS loses all credibility if it completely changes its rules to cater to Vergara

    I thought it lost credebility with single entity, clocks running backwards, Shoot Outs, 80% chance of making it to the playoffs...
     
  9. BulaJacket

    BulaJacket Member

    May 9, 2003
    Denver / Cleveland / MN / Jax
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: I was all for the Chivas expansion, but now...

    They are demanding...or at the very least, pulling MLS around by the tongue, goat tail, ear, ****, or whatever body part you wanna use. Secondly, MLS is bending over and taking one from Vergara -- Houston, no, San Diego, no LA....no SSS? that's alright....$10 million? nah, only $6 million....we want more mexicans than the league limit....we want a spanish speaking team....etc....this is the US, not mexico. This is a league that was designed partly to build US soccer and the USMNT, again, not mexican soccer.
    On a side note, it is true, half of the time, Vergara's people sound full of it, but it sounds unprofessional the way and manner they go around the league.

    I do agree with your impact statement however.

    More so, the TV statement repeated by usacarlos in this thread, and consistantly by myself since this rumor started, is the most important issue of all. Increased TV exposure, both on spanish and english speaking channels with easy access is extremely important for the long term success of this league (as well as attendance and all types of credibility).

    Lastly, off topic, and not to truly anger you, but living in the Dallas and Temple areas, I realize how many idiots there are in texas. To a small extent you are showing it. A "republic" refers to a nation. Despite texas' inferiority complex (hell, gotta have an "everything is bigger" slogan to feel better), this is not the case. Sorry to break it to you, as I realize that, as Quiznos would say it, texas "just don't know that much" (radio commercial). Apparently I, and other texas residents, need to spend more money on schools and not be in the bottom five of education issues ;) Now you can get back in your huge truck (or big SUV if you're a woman as generally most SUV drivers are horrible and buy them to be safe and good women drivers drive cars), to feel "manly", for which you have no true extended use for, to ride on the highways, which we spend too much of our tax money on, because getting destroyed more proportionately by gas guzzling semis, trucks, and SUVs than cars...lol

    sorry, i couldn't resist and this place (texas) just makes you crazy sometimes. ;)

    back on topic:

    the USMNT and MLS, although sginificantly tied together overall, are seperate beasts in a credibility issue. Acting like a bi**h is not professionally credible business wise, which would be MLS lowering the expansion fee, MLS bowing to demands of a foreign investor, and/or creating a mexican MLS team, regardless of the percieved skill level issue. How would this look to the fans, potential investors, and other soccer commodities across the world?
    As for the mexican team issue, this is the US, not Mexico, and a league made to develop US talent and soccer.
    Also, this issue, back to your first sentence and paragraph, has nothing to do with on field credibility, which is an entirely different issue as well.

    yes, I agree that vergara's people are full of crap half of the time; see above.

    exactly why MLS changed some of it, and will change a little more in the future - to gain credibility, of which kind could be called league credibility, as viewed by the world and soccer fans.



    Credibility: business, on field play, league structure, US - all different types of credibility, and there are more.
     
  10. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    this guy sees the way the spanish community supports LA and probably thinks that he can do much better with names that fans can recognize or relate too. he basically wants an all spanish team to play in the MLS. I don't have a problem with that so much as long as the other teams in the league gets concessions when it comes to SI's. MLS sounds like they are kissing this guys ass right now. 6 mill instead of 10? they are setting a dangerous precident right now. Will Cleveland investors or Rochester owners look at this and demand the same now? Whats the salary cap going to be for this team? more than the other 10? This whole deal is starting to become more and more shady. Whatever is granted to this team should be granted to all. I am sure Kraft, phil and two other owners are wondering what the heck Garber is doing. This could be a very bad move for the league financially if they have to compensate the other teams for allowing the New team more SI's or a greater cap. How are the other owners going to react to this? This will be very interesting indeed to watch this play out.
     
  11. BulaJacket

    BulaJacket Member

    May 9, 2003
    Denver / Cleveland / MN / Jax
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    on the flipside:
    from Chris, the author of the article:
    Again, I don't think that type of rule change happens, and that Vergara is just posturing, but if it does, MLS will lose mine and many others support and $$$.
    MLS needs to step up ;)
     
  12. BulaJacket

    BulaJacket Member

    May 9, 2003
    Denver / Cleveland / MN / Jax
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My biggest point of all - credibility ;)
     
  13. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain

    Wait, haven't you said that part of the problem w/ MLS is that the directors aren't footie savvy? Isn't Vergara at least a step above?
     
  14. Various Styles

    Various Styles Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Originally posted by uclacarlos

    Wait, haven't you said that part of the problem w/ MLS is that the directors aren't footie savvy?

    Nope not me.. I did call out the countdown clock ect but i dont know who made these decisions..


    Isn't Vergara at least a step above?

    Vergara has shown to be agreat buisnessman and has been doing good promoting the Chivas product. He not only cleaned up the Jersey but he also made Chivas~Cola which is said to be doing good sales.

    As far as football decisions are concerned he has let the persons that know what they are doing handle those situations. That is why he has been critisized heavily in the MFL. He has made outragous statements but in part he gets a lot of media coverage which in turn is good.
     
  15. efren95

    efren95 Member

    Apr 20, 2000
    Republic of Texas
    Bulajacket:

    Remember: Texas is a "nation" within a nation.

    Even we disagree in some soccer issues, at least we both cheer for Dallas Burn...
     
  16. JCUnited

    JCUnited Member

    Oct 7, 2002
    South Bend, IN
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    MLS officials have gone to several different sources, among them our own Wheelock and Harkes, plus a paper in San Jose, and denied that any new Chivas club will get special treatment.

    At first I ignored these threads, then I read them and laughed, now they are starting to annoy me.

    WAIT UNTIL SOME OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT IS MADE BEFORE POSTING ON HOW BAD CHIVAS IS FOR MLS, OR HOW THEY WILL GET SPECIAL TREATMENT, OR HOW IT WILL EFFECT OUR LEAGUE, OR HOW YOU'LL GIVE UP ON MLS IF IT HAPPENS!

    Commenting on rumors and other postings is always an ignorant thing to do. IF an announcement is made that accredits these rumors, then bitch about it. Right now, let the thing die.

    We only have to wait one more month until Garber confirms or denies anything. Please, for the love of soccer, be patient.
     
  17. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    Yes, that's right. No one post an opinion or speak their own mind, except maybe JCUnited. That's not what BS is for. Discussion of any soccer-related topic is now expressly discouraged.

    Thanks, JC. :D
     
  18. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yeah, i have to agree with roehl on his answer to this. this board is here for the express purpose of people giving their opinions on things that MAY or MAY NOT happen. as silly as this may sound, i'm sure that there are people posted on these boards by MLS to guage the pulse of the people. How do I know that? because i work in marketing myself and have friends who work in marketing, and i know of people whose jobs consisted of getting on the internet every day for 10 hours a day, and surfing sites like these that had to do with the specific product they were dealing with. that's right ......... yahoo personals, black voices, msn personals, etc. If we don't all speak up about our opinions, strangely enough, they may never be heard.
     
  19. BulaJacket

    BulaJacket Member

    May 9, 2003
    Denver / Cleveland / MN / Jax
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :rolleyes:
    I know this topic has been overdone on BS for the last coupla months, but this is a MESSAGE BOARD. WTF do you expect? In case you missed it, soccer doesn't get a whole lot of coverage in the media....
    take some prozac

    efren...true, true ;)
     
  20. JCUnited

    JCUnited Member

    Oct 7, 2002
    South Bend, IN
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Opinion is great.

    Opinion based on rumors that leads to such wild speculation and declaration only makes you look silly. Sorry, it's the truth.

    If I start a thread saying that MLS was going to allow a club that fielded only people born in Latvia, there would be twenty different threads started tomorrow about how it was a horrible idea and posters were dumping MLS.

    Here's why this thread is pointless: The first thread says what a horrible idea a Chivas team is because it would be allowed to break the MLS rules while other clubs could not. The problem is that the thread was started one day after MLS denied this in several different media outlets. The league denies it, there is nothing to prove that it will happen except the word of some Chivas subordinate who has been discredited by our league and the Chivas owner in recent months. Yet, we still get several more pages of postings saying what a bad idea it is. The whole reason for the thread, the reason Roehl is against the Chivas expansion, is a reason that has been denied by MLS. Now, if in one month Garber says hey, we lied in October and Chivas will get exceptions to our rules, then feel free to toss out opinions. I just don't see a reason to complain about it now. Sorry.

    Yeah, tossing out opinions is great. But can't we at least keep them to five or six threads, rather then start a new one each day based on rumor that has been debunked?

    Speak your own mind. It's a free country and board. But can't we try to speak our mind in a single thread rather then in several threads on the same topic?
     
  21. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    Sorry, I also had another argument (oh look! a new thought!). I'd spill it for you but I wouldn't want to spoil your fun. Read back.
     
  22. BulaJacket

    BulaJacket Member

    May 9, 2003
    Denver / Cleveland / MN / Jax
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If this was your point, I could agree with you, but it's not.
    Again, this is a message board where people debate, post, and talk about current games, rumors, speculation, and general soccer if you didn't realize.
    Next, If you created a thread about Latvia, no one would care. Not even because you wrote it, but because the subject matter would be irrelevant, because that is not in the press as an impending issue and change to MLS. Just to clue you in, Vergara may actually invest in MLS and be the I/O of a new team. I'm sure you can fill in the rest of the blanks.
    When MLS actually denies the rumors with substance and dialog instead of "MLS denies the rumors", then we'll have an alternate story to talk about and debate, but that's all we have.
    please quit crying.
     
  23. Machetazo

    Machetazo Member

    Mar 20, 2002
    L.A.
    dude, he's not soccer knowledgeable, he's just another rich guy who bought a team in Mexico.
    Vergara said that he was going to hire the best coach in the world, and he goes on and hires a rookie coach. He then said that he wants a long process,but after only 1 season and a half he fires his coach.:rolleyes:
     
  24. NACIONAL

    NACIONAL New Member

    Dec 31, 2001
    Medellin, Colombia
    Agree on that... but not all opinions...

    if you have an opinion that says: Cats have 6 legs and 3 tails... well its an opinion... but a very stupid one......

    I'm not flaming anyone.... I'm posting my thoughts about general opinions....
     
  25. IBleedTeal

    IBleedTeal Member+

    Jun 2, 2001
    Yves Fiat
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Get ready to witness your MLS team play an away game everywhere Chivas goes.

    And be prepared for your field to get trashed and your women harrassed.

    Think im pulling this out of my ass? Chivas/San Jose last tuesday. Most disgusting thing i've seen in awhile at a game involving an MLS team. Their fans tried to start fights with EVERYONE and completely trashed the Spartan pitch post-game. They threw every beverage consumed during the game and a bunch of trashcans and other garbage on to the pitch.

    This is not what MLS needs.
     

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