It's not a false statement since what you mention here is your opinion, and your experience. Also, you are talking about perceived overall value with Mac vs Linux PCs. Let me address each specific statement here: "macs are not expensive" - Well, I'm sure if you dig far enough you can find some good deals. However, the cheapest retail price I've found on a Mac was $800 for an eMac (the older style). It's still a good overall value to be sure, but you can get a new Linux PC for $200, and with some sales (such as the Fry's Christmas sale), you can get it as low as $100. To add to that, you can get a Linux distro for free, or pay for a full packed one for around $70 to $80, and install it on an existing Windows PC or a Mac (Linux is supported on Mac hardware). "You pay for what you get and you get a better resale value" - Linux is proving that you do not have to pay an arm and a leg for an excellent OS and other software. True, OSX is more advanced in the user land than Linux. But the the two kernels (BSD for OSX) are very comparable in quality, stability, security, and longevity. I might give you the idea that OSX is better overall then Linux, but not by much. And as for hardware, you can get equivelant hardware for PCs comparable (in terms of quality, performance, longevity) to Mac/PowerPC hardware for less. "better life of computer use" - Linux lasts forever. "better OS" - Once again - I might give you the idea that OSX is better overall then Linux, but not by much. "better community for helping with issues on your mac" - I strongly disagree here. While the Mac community is quite loyal and active and friendly, it can't even begin to match the size, activeness, and enthusiasm of the Linux community. And just check places like mandrakeusers.org, mepislovers.com, ubuntuforums.org, linuxquestions.org, and many other forums, and you will see how great the Linux community truly is. "and better overall experience" This is subjective. Most Mac users love their Macs and OSX. Most Linux users love Linux. My experience with Macs is somewhat limited. They're great, I'll give it that. But my experience with Linux is extensive, and has been absolutely wonderful.
For the average user...no offense Linux is not simple. I'm not sure you can argue simplicity. Yes for someone educated in it like yourself it's easy, probably years and years of use. Straight side by side for a numbnutz user, i'm 100% confident they'd adapt quicker to using OS X. I can't argue the fact pc's are cheap. you get what you pay for. I will say i think you telling him linux over windows is very smart though. i think the idea of his post though isn't linux, it's about macs and his questions about macs and a change to an apple product.
Okay, we're hijacking the thread Anyway, I have to beg to differ on Linux not being simple. I've already stated that you can get a Live CD. Simply put it in your CD drive, reboot, then your hardware is automagically detected, and TA-DA!!, instant Linux. What could be easier than that? Also, most modern distros have made installation so brain dead simple it's hilarious. And some of the best ones have all kinds of excellent GUI tools for configuring the system. Plus, you have a choice of the Gnome or KDE desktop environments, which are extremely simple to use. Sure, one could get the more hardcore distros like Debian, Slackware, or Gentoo (great for Linux gurus), and dig into the command line and config files and the like. But you can also stick with newbie friendly distros like Mandrake, Mepis, Ubuntu, SuSE, Xandros, Linspire, etc, and have just as easy a time as Windows, and almost as easy as Macs. Afterall, I got my totally computer illiterate 70 yr old mother using a Linspire PC with ease. My only guidance was computer usage 1A, like how to double click the mouse, or do a search in Google, etc (she's that computer illiterate). If she can do it, so can anyone here in this thread. And yes, I've been using Linux for a while (about 2-1/2 years), and I know a lot of the ins and outs. I'm also an IT professional (programmer, web developer, software trainer, systems analyst). However, even though I have the tech savvy, I have neither the time (I'm a father of a two year old) or the patience to be willing to constantly fight with a Linux system to get everything working correctly. Luckily, newbie friendly distros like the ones I've mentioned have made it all possible with my limited time and patience. All that said, Macs do indeed rock, and the orignal thread starter would be doing himself a huge favor by chucking his Winblows and going with a Mac. I just wanted to present another very viable, affordable alternative: Linux. I want Ballmer and Butt-head (Gates) to have to earn everyone's business. So Macs, Linux, BSD - it's all good (and a lot better than Winblows).
Officially hijacked...nice post jeff, and i wasn't trying to argue against linux. You did give him a simple choice, with links no less
this is why i hate mac/linux fan boys. they are always ultra sensitive, dogmatic, and insecure. they often talk too much and forget about everyone and start fighting each other for no reason. very disturbing for the most of us quality windows users. very very sad
You are stereotyping about "fan boys". I don't see anyone being sensitive, dogmatic, or insecure here on this thread. I mean, what is so dogmatic about "Mac is great because x, y and z" or "Linux is great because a, b and c", or to point out Windows deficiencies and/or Microsoft's mafia style business practices. It's all just fun, lively debate, about what's good about Mac and Linux. True, users of macs and linux tend to be very enthusiastic about their toys. But that should tell you something - about how good those products are. I know I was harsh on you, Premium Hamatachi, on a previous post, because you came off as dogmatic when you trashed macs. However, I'm curious. Have you actually tried using a Mac, or a PC with Linux installed (or try installing Linux yourself)? I'm guessing that you've either never tried them, or you did try them and had a less than satisfactory experience. If it is the former, you shouldn't criticize something you are ignorant about. If it's the latter, I'm curious what problems you had. Thanks.
I've been reading this thread closely and some of you seem pretty knowledgable so please, bear with me through a couple of questions I've actually begun, like dreamer, though i am ipod-less, to think about making the big transfer from windows to a mac but im not sure i have enough grounded reasons to do so. First of all, I'd like to ask you what the difference is between: ibookG4, powerbook G4, eMac, iMac, and Powermacs. Perhaps because I might be a typical Korean who is multi-media oriented or maybe its just because thats just the way i am, i've been reading debates on the windows vs mac[/b] forum somewhere on the net and have failed to conclude which OS serves better for me. All I do on my computer is leave Msn Messenger on 24/7, play Simcity Rush Hour, surf the web, edit digitized pictures through Flash and Photoshop, and of course, chat, if you havent noticed. Although I could do this on the Windows with no problem, I'm looking for simplicity, design, and wireless capability since I am looking into purchasing a new desktop and my first laptop (laptops seem to be extremely comfortable while going to classes - writing down notes for a professor who cant shut his mouth can be a pain!) . So to sum things up Windows vs Mac in: --------------------- simplicity, design, compatibility, wireless capability Your honest opinion would be greatly appreciated
imacs and ibooks are more along the consumer lines powerbooks and powermacs are for the power hungry apps and people emacs are really Apples cheaper ..educational models, but are great machines really. From your needs you posted an ibook or imac are perfectly ample power. All macs have wireless capabilities, it's a matter of just ordering the airport card, but all have the slot built-in for cards. I personally believe OS X is the best OS out there..although jeff would say linux, we both agree it's not windows for sure. No OS looks as good IMO, it's flat beautiful to look at and use. It makes windows look like leggo land. Ease of the user is something Apple has always been known for. They tend to make quality machines, that also look good. You don't see many mac users that hide their machines under the desk...most sit in plain view. They truly are pieces of art in my mind, that look and perform well. The best thing really to do, is go and look at them and play with one at an Apple store or any retailer that sells them. I personally believe the OS and the machines do a fine job of selling themselves. You can read forums and debates over good machines. All i know is you'll rarely find a negative comment on a mac forum about macs...the same can't be said for the windows side. Most mac users never switch to pc's and the loyalty of a mac users is very high for good reason. We have a good experience, therefor we never need to change. A good forum if you are serious about switching and people will answer questions about macs for you. http://forums.appleinsider.com/
Simplicity - Mac, it's super easy to use. Design - Mac, they make some of the nicest looking computers out there, but aesthetically and OS wise. Compatability - Win, just because there are tons more programs, BUT if there's a program you use on Windoze you'll find it or something exactly like it for the Mac. Wireless capability - Mac, Macs have had wireless internet cards installed since M$ was figuring out the bugs in W2k. Apple was the first company to integrate the latest form of wireless internet into the computers.
Thanks for the fast reply. I was browsing through the mac store online and found out that accessory prices were flat out ridiculous compared to PC counterparts. Is this due to inflation of poor sales compared to PC's ? What are your general opinions on the future of the machine ? Also, hardware repair of PC's are amazingly simple - from formatting to customizing your machine - does this apply to the MAC as well ? Sorry about my lengthy questions.
Actually, to be honest, I would say that OSX is slightly superior to Linux. The user interface to OSX is second to none, and it's built on rock solid BSD (a Unix-like OS, just like Linux). So, essvee, go for a Mac, if you have the spare cash. You won't regret it. It's super easy to use, has awesome quality, gets few viruses, has most of the software that you would ever need, and people who have Macs absolutely love them. Then take your existing Windows PC and install Linux on it. It's cheap and it's easy - just read my lengthy post a few pages back to see some of the options. People who get into Linux tend to absolutely love it. If you install Linux on your existing Windoze PC, you won't regret it either.
What type of accessories? I ask because all the accessories I've bought for my powerbook are useable on a pc as well. Macs will stick around for a LONG time. People have been predicting the demise of Apple forever and it's never happened. Apple is actually starting to sell more computers now than they ever have before. For the past two years their market share has been growing, slowly, but it's been growing. It's SUPER easy to do all of that on the Mac, OS X has a nice feature that scans and repairs the hd when it's in sleep mode.
Like Dante said, most Mac accessories work on PCs, so I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. That said, the store itself seems to put markups, or at least sell things at the suggested retail price. But most of that stuff, you can get for cheaper by getting them at 3rd party stores, and even Apple specific stuff is cheaper if you search at dealmac.com.
Well I meant little add-ons like the Ipod, remote, airport, ipod minidock, bluetooth, ect - were a little pricey than i expected. Anyway thanks a lot Skip.
Oh just one more question - MAC OS X's let you type, say, Korean, too right ? Because Korean Macs seem to be a lot more expensive than their American counterparts.
Since i can't read korean or japanese or chinese, i can't tell you. There are multiple language choices that look like symbols to me. I'm assuming they are one of the above, there are like 4 or 5 in my system preferences to choose from. If i remember right, many of the languages are choices on install. A bunch of them i chose not to install when i upgraded About ipods and airport and so forth. Yes they cost more, but regardless of what some think, ipods are worth every penny if you like music and you want flawless interface with the computer. Airport, bluetooth, all of it works without a hitch. Pricey i suppose, but the stuff works and works right. I never flinch at the price, since i know the quality. You can use any wireless router though, and printer, hd, digital camera, and so forth. Those things are pretty much no issue either. Think of Apple product like Mercedes and options cost more, if you want a Yugo, get another PC
oh please dont give me that "youre so brainwashed" malarkey - ive been thinking about this for years ( literally and metaphorically ). So run along now, windows fanboy
Well think of it this way, you don't have to buy the Apple version of the airport, bluetooth, etc. You can buy the linksys wireless router, some random bluetooth module etc. The only Apple things I have are my powerbook and my ipod, all the other accessories I have i.e. mouse, monitor, bluetooth, etc. are your run of the mill items that you can also use on a PS. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I have the M$ optical mouse hooked up to my powerbook.