How would potential Yank xfers stack up to Barmby's?

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by jeffmefun, Aug 6, 2002.

  1. jeffmefun

    jeffmefun Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Quakeland, CA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok... here's the context:
    Nick Barmby was just transferred from Liverpool to Leeds for $4.25M in the middle of what many people consider to be a pretty flat transfer market.

    Barmby played ahead of JMM a few years ago at Everton, or at least produced goals when Joe Max wasn't, so pardon any misinterpretations or analysis.

    Here's the thread: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=5361

    Now the question:
    How would you rate the quality of Barmby as a player relative to the quality of some of our potential Yank (Nat) transfers?

    The thing that interests me here is that I believe many of our players are comparably skilled at least, and that Nick is an interesting measure for comparison, as opposed to say a Saviola or Zidane... thoughts?
     
  2. Maczebus

    Maczebus New Member

    Jun 15, 2002
    In an answer not befitting the question:
    I wouldn't expect an MLS player to achieve such a transfer fee (at least from English teams). Experience at this level for 'many' years and a vaguely consistant (if not very spectacular) showing across the board, is reflected in the $4million price tag.
    EPL clubs would not be eager to risk the same amount of money on untested MLS players (obviously in the sense of domestic English football), regardless of whether the MLS player is of similar quality or not.
     
  3. Alex_1

    Alex_1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 29, 2002
    Zürich
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Barmby never really lived up to the expectation of Liverpool or himself for that matter in the Liverpool system. But he does have England experience in full national side and is a versatile player - the move to Leeds will be good for him professionally. Compared to MLS and AMerican players? THere isn'[t one, really. THat is not to slam the US players, but different circumstances determine different measures and needs to fill gaps in the team. Also, Barmby does have a fairly solid track record in the past, while with the American players the jury is still out. You just don't really know what you'll get.

    Don't look too much into it. THe only way is if you can tell a specific AMerican "style" and how they would fit into a gap or hole that the club may have- or maybe even if the American player can raise the level of the team around him. Otherwise, IMO, it's like comparing apples to oranges.
     
  4. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Reyna got more. John O'Brien could triple that amount next season after Champions League. If donovan really wanted he could easily pass that amount. Ben Olsen would have gotten more, if Mathis would have transfered before WC he would have gotten more. I'm not sure how much Ajax offered but someone mentioned 2.2 million or something. And thats for a 20 year old who is still raw.
     
  5. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    US style

    Seeing as the english press during the cup defined the american game as shorter on skill than heart, it would seem American players would be the perfect fit for the EPL. Mas would fit perfectly into a lineup in a mid-table team, as would sanneh, as would Hedjuk, job etc. Isn't going to happen, so it's all speculation, but a man can dream. As for transfer value, there's more to Barmby's value than his ability, or his general track record. Venables must really like the guy from days gone by ( have they worked together?) because he's not cracking Leeds lineup on a regular basis. He must be just fullup with those intangibles coaches love so much.
     
  6. Lance90

    Lance90 Member

    Feb 7, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Wow! Can I have some of what you're smoking?
     
  7. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    What part of what I said was so amazing? a 4.5 m transfer is not all that much. Claudio Reyna got a 6 million transfer fee. John O'Brien is perhaps our most skilled 2-way player (including reyna) on this team and maybe in US history. He is also starting on one of the best teams in the World, and is just 24. I'd be extremly surprised if he did not recieve a double digit transfer fee after this seasons Champions League. If you ever have paid attention around here you'd know that Donovan has been valued any where from 6 - 10m. Mathis was about to go for approximatly 5 million before his world cup injury. I don't understand what you think is outragous in this.
     
  8. mik_smith

    mik_smith New Member

    Feb 5, 2001
    London
    Venables gave Barmby his first cap way back when when Barmby was a wonder boy for Tottenham. Note also that Venables is being linked with Paul (?) Okon and Brett (?) Emerson -- two aussies from his short tenure as socceroos coach. The message is: it's as important to be known not just good...

    If we started hiring random foreigners as national team managers and switched them every six months (which is what most national associations do...) then the Sacchis, Venables, Hiddinks, etc. of the world would most likely take their favorites with them when they moved on to new clubs. Not saying I recommend this approach, just saying it's one more little reason why Americans have a hard time in the transfer market.
     
  9. wu-tang beez

    wu-tang beez New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Irving, TX
    What?
     
  10. dcc134

    dcc134 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    May 15, 2000
    Hummelstown, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    BM only offered around $1m for Mathis, MLS wanted 5 so it didn't happen. Olsen was going to go for around $2-2.5m, well below the $4.25m quoted above.
     
  11. mik_smith

    mik_smith New Member

    Feb 5, 2001
    London
    Nick Barmby's value will always be higher in England than an equivalently-skilled Yank. Why? Because he's played for dozens of different managers in England, all of whom know for a fact how Barmby plays -- and all of whom know for a fact how he plays, how he trains, whether he gets on with the other players, etc. etc.

    Americans -- by contrast -- are an unknown commodity. Use Ben Olsen as an example. ASSUME he's got exactly the same skills as Barmby -- same age, same position, same skills, same ability to miss large parts of the season with injury. (I'm not saying it's true, I'm just trying to make a point)

    So these two players are identical in every way except one. One -- Barmby -- has player at club, reserve, youth, and country levels for dozens of coaches in England. All of those managers have a good idea of what Nick Barmby is worth and are willing to bid for his services. B/c of the competition, his price maybe gets bid up a little higher than it's worth, but everyone is pretty sure what they're getting...

    The other -- our American player -- has a good highlight reel from MLS, looked good the last time we saw him playing international ball, and (if we stick with the Olsen example) had a good loan spell in England a few years ago. But none of the managers in England REALLY know how good a player Olsen is, how hard he trains, whether he makes friends, if he'll fit in with a more physical style of football, whether he sulks if left on the bench, etc. For all these managers, Olsen represents a bit of a risk -- THEY'RE JUST NOT SURE WHAT THEY'RE GETTING. Therefore, his transfer price will be lower.
     
  12. schmuckatelli

    schmuckatelli New Member

    Nov 10, 2000
    This, along with the one above by maczebus, was right on the mark. Almost no one who was playing outside of Europe is getting big money in the transfer market this year, so "known quantity" players are commanding the few euros/pounds changing hands these days.
     
  13. wu-tang beez

    wu-tang beez New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Irving, TX
    Aye.E.I.Oh! You.

    By George I think I've got it. And 4yrs I figured english clubs just hated not British or EU players.

    Why doesn't this hold up for the rest of the teams around the world that'll pay biguns 4 unproven players.
     
  14. dcc134

    dcc134 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    May 15, 2000
    Hummelstown, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    This is true, although Olsen is more of a known quality and would come with a strong reference from Platt, than a player like mathis or DMB.
     
  15. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    SOMETHING happened, Mathis was all set to go over and the MLS didn't let Mathis do it.
     
  16. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Probably because Mathis is the sole reason to go to a Metro-Tards game.
     
  17. Nimbus2000

    Nimbus2000 Member

    Mar 6, 2001
    Maine
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's tough to argue with. My TV remains at a Metros game a lot longer when Mathis is playing.
     
  18. mik_smith

    mik_smith New Member

    Feb 5, 2001
    London
    Most (if not all) of the "unproven players" you mention are playing in countries with massive infrastructures, long histories, thousands of coaches/scouts, etc. Paying $5 million for someone in the Serie B or Disn't as much a risk as paying $10million for someone from the MLS, J-League, any African or Asian league, etc. etc.

    I can't think of any transfers where a club outside Spain, England, Italy, France, Germany, Holland, Argetina, or Brazil made more than $5 million on a player. I'm sure someone will be able to come up with one, but I think big transfers involving clubs in small countries are pretty rare.

    Maybe Nakata? but I think he was already in Italy before the big money started flowing.
     
  19. kpaulson

    kpaulson New Member

    Jun 16, 2000
    Washington DC
    Honestly, I think Spain, Germany and Italy are much better at evaluating and grabbing young foreign players than England, where's it much more likely to seek a transfer of a player in his mid-20s on to early 30s. Add to that that transfer budgets generally seem a little higher in SPain and Italy and I think you've got an answer.
     

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